2nd racking / degassing and bung advice

[purpletongue]

I'm wondering if it's OK to rack from my carboy into my primary fermentation bucket, which is large and easy to degass in using the whisk I have. Then, rack it back into a carboy after degassing is complete. Will the back and forth cause any issues? I figure there's so much air exposure during the degassing it wouldn't make a difference?

Also, I have about 22L in a 23L carboy and I have more 23L carboys. Thing is I have one sort of an odd carboy that is 19L but the largest bung I have fits sort of loose. I was thinking of wrapping some tape around the bung just to increase the diameter a bit so the fit is more snug. Any thoughts on if it's worth it so that topping up with water isn't needed if I use the 23L? Or is it better to use the 23L again and not worry about the bit of air left in the carboy?Then theoretically I could do the final third racking into the 19L.

 

[reeflections]

I'm sure you'll get a better answer cuz I don't know what I'm talking about, but it seems to me that using a whip with a wide open top would be adding oxygen as much as it would be removing CO2.

Have you looked into the All In One pump?

 

[salcoco]

degassing in the open bucket will be okay. just use the whisk for only about two minutes. your idea to put wine in 19l will work along with the tape idea. m ake sure you still use a airlock as the wine will be degassing itself.

 

[purpletongue]

I'm sure you'll get a better answer cuz I don't know what I'm talking about, but it seems to me that using a whip with a wide open top would be adding oxygen as much as it would be removing CO2.

Have you looked into the All In One pump?

I have not looked into that pump.

 

[purpletongue]

degassing in the open bucket will be okay. just use the whisk for only about two minutes. your idea to put wine in 19l will work along with the tape idea. m ake sure you still use a airlock as the wine will be degassing itself.

OK thanks, I was more worried that essentially doing two racks would be problematic. Do you think it's preferable to go now from 23L to 19L instead of going into 23L now and saving the 19L for the final racking? Since I only have the one 19L.

 

[reeflections]

I have not looked into that pump.

check out this thread:

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/review-allinonewinepump.15976/

 

[Chuck E]

@purpletongue

You can "top off" your 23L carboy with a similar wine. For long term bulk aging your goal is to minimize exposure to oxygen. There is a lot of oxygen when you have a large head space in your carboy.

 

[sour_grapes]

I agree with Chuck. Why not top off with another wine? You get to drink that wine later!

And racking to a bucket to degas is a common practice, and is fine.

 

[purpletongue]

@purpletongue

You can "top off" your 23L carboy with a similar wine. For long term bulk aging your goal is to minimize exposure to oxygen. There is a lot of oxygen when you have a large head space in your carboy.

I think I read a thread on here where someone had a similar question about topping up and wanting to keep the cost down. Someone replied that some quick wine kits don't specify it's needed anymore? I guess this is under the assumption you'll drink the batch within 6 months or so?

 

[purpletongue]

I agree with Chuck. Why not top off with another wine? You get to drink that wine later!

And racking to a bucket to degas is a common practice, and is fine.

I guess it's the frugal side of me. To keep the costs down and I guess I like the idea that the wine is 100% what I made and nothing else was introduced commercial. But you make a good point it's all going to the same place.

Thanks, I wasn't sure about that. Thanks for confirming. How long would you recommend I stir it with a big whisk? 2 min as suggested? I also realized my smaller carboy is 20L not 19L.

 

[Chuck E]

I guess it's the frugal side of me. To keep the costs down and I guess I like the idea that the wine is 100% what I made and nothing else was introduced commercial. But you make a good point it's all going to the same place.

Thanks, I wasn't sure about that. Thanks for confirming. How long would you recommend I stir it with a big whisk? 2 min as suggested? I also realized my smaller carboy is 20L not 19L.

If you are adding a liter to top off, that's less than 5% somebody else's wine. It's unlikely to make a big difference.

Do you have anything you made to be the top-off wine? I have enough of mine now, to do that, but if you are just starting out, that's unavailable.

Once my wine goes into carboy or barrels, I don't stir. I do have the All-In-One pump, so I get some de-gassing with every transfer, but I prefer to let time "do its thing."

 

[purpletongue]

If you are adding a liter to top off, that's less than 5% somebody else's wine. It's unlikely to make a big difference.

Do you have anything you made to be the top-off wine? I have enough of mine now, to do that, but if you are just starting out, that's unavailable.

Once my wine goes into carboy or barrels, I don't stir. I do have the All-In-One pump, so I get some de-gassing with every transfer, but I prefer to let time "do its thing."

That's true not a big difference. Mostly a purist thing I guess.

I don't yet. This is my first batch but I'll be sure to try to keep some aside for the topping up now.

 

[Digital-monk]

Using a bucket to degass is a great idea. Avoids many volcanos if you do it in a carboy. You want to wipe until you don’t get more bubbles surfacing. Some wines that were in primary longer hardly need more than 2 mins, but others I have done for 25+ mins. I also think that altitude must have some impact on how readily the CO2 comes out.

 

[purpletongue]

Using a bucket to degass is a great idea. Avoids many volcanos if you do it in a carboy. You want to wipe until you don’t get more bubbles surfacing. Some wines that were in primary longer hardly need more than 2 mins, but others I have done for 25+ mins. I also think that altitude must have some impact on how readily the CO2 comes out.

Thanks for the advice. Wow 25min! I can see why they sell the attachment for a drill then. I wonder if I should try to make something so my drill/driver can attach to my whisk. Was thinking about it but didn't know if it's necessary (it's a pretty big whisk). Right now there are very little bubbles in the carboy, burping has slowed down considerably and there's no bubbles in the glass while tasting or detectable on the pallete when tasting. That said, I've been told on the forum, even still, the C02 is in there.

 

[purpletongue]

Once my wine goes into carboy or barrels, I don't stir. I do have the All-In-One pump, so I get some de-gassing with every transfer, but I prefer to let time "do its thing."

This is interesting, so you just depend on the pump? In my book I don't think it suggests degassing either, it just has you splashing around the wine for the first couple racks.

 

[Rice_Guy]

There is a product called silicone tape at HomeDepot/ hardware store which will provide a tight seal/ stretch and seal to itself and not leak gas. Normal electrical and scotch won’t deform enough to seal.
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. . . . 19L but the largest bung I have fits sort of loose. I was thinking of wrapping some tape around the bung just to increase the diameter a bit so the fit is more snug. . . .

You are touching on one of my home winemaking gripes, Why isn’t there a 25 liter variable capacity tank? Everyone needs to minimize head space.

 

[purpletongue]

There is a product called silicone tape at HomeDepot/ hardware store which will provide a tight seal/ stretch and seal to itself and not leak gas. Normal electrical and scotch won’t deform enough to seal.
. View attachment 61600

You are touching on one of my home winemaking gripes, Why isn’t there a 25 liter variable capacity tank? Everyone needs to minimize head space.

Thanks for the tip! Do you think plumbers tape would work? I have some of that on hand.

Didn't know variable capacity was a thing. Just googled it and that's neat. You're right that'd be a great product. I've read of people adding sanitized marbles too.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Do you think plumbers tape would work? I have some of that on hand.

Didn't know variable capacity was a thing. Just googled it and that's neat. You're right that'd be a great product. I've read of people adding sanitized marbles too.

Teflon tape has lower adhesion than vinyl electrical tape. If the stores aren’t open on a holiday, electrical is second best, in which case actively stretch it so it tries to shrink back on itself.
Another choice is to “float” a food grade bag/ tube of water in the carboy. Have been tempted to heat seal a zip lock into tubes, but haven’t thought through how to remove em. Large stainless variable exist. High barrier wine bags may be an actual fix for home scale variable capacity.

 

[jpwatkins9]

If you don’t want to top up, just get a can of wine preserve inert gas (Argon, CO2, and Nitrogen) and put some in the carboy Headspace. Also add some K meta to scavenge the O2. The wine will also outgas some additional CO2 so no real problems. I do this when racking or bulk aging in my 23 liter carboy.

 

[reeflections]

I have 2 questions:

If we stir the primary to introduce oxygen, why doesn't stirring the wine later to degas not introduce oxygen?

How about these headspace eliminators instead of topping up? Obviously you would need some sort of vacuum pump to use them but they are never mentioned when this topic comes up.