4 1/2 Months On Oak

[vinny]

It has been 4 1/2 months since I racked my 5 kit yeast experiment. I tasted all today and some are good, some are great.

The Montepulciano Cab Shiraz is wonderfully full and has a creamy vanilla lovelyness. Is there likely any oak flavor left in the cubes. I like it where it is, but I am also dipping my baster into the neck and pulling from where the cubes are floating. Would you expect the flavor is pretty even or am I sucking up a shot of oak?

This is my first kit with cubes.

I am just wondering if I should leave it till 6 months and rack, or if I should pull it off the cubes and lees. I racked off the gross lees and I am still on the fine lees. No battonage to date.

Just looking for everyone's thoughts.

I have a couple utility wines in the mix, I was planning to leave them as is until 6 months and assess then. What is the longest you have left a wine on the fine lees?

 

[ChuckD]

It has been 4 1/2 months since I racked my 5 kit yeast experiment. I tasted all today and some are good, some are great.

The Montepulciano Cab Shiraz is wonderfully full and has a creamy vanilla lovelyness. Is there likely any oak flavor left in the cubes. I like it where it is, but I am also dipping my baster into the neck and pulling from where the cubes are floating. Would you expect the flavor is pretty even or am I sucking up a shot of oak?

This is my first kit with cubes.

I am just wondering if I should leave it till 6 months and rack, or if I should pull it off the cubes and lees. I racked off the gross lees and I am still on the fine lees. No battonage to date.

Just looking for everyone's thoughts.

I have a couple utility wines in the mix, I was planning to leave them as is until 6 months and assess then. What is the longest you have left a wine on the fine lees?

Probably 10 months. IF I rack after clearing it will almost certainly be the last time I rack until bottling… even if that takes a year

 

[Jim Welch]

It has been 4 1/2 months since I racked my 5 kit yeast experiment. I tasted all today and some are good, some are great.

The Montepulciano Cab Shiraz is wonderfully full and has a creamy vanilla lovelyness. Is there likely any oak flavor left in the cubes. I like it where it is, but I am also dipping my baster into the neck and pulling from where the cubes are floating. Would you expect the flavor is pretty even or am I sucking up a shot of oak?

This is my first kit with cubes.

I am just wondering if I should leave it till 6 months and rack, or if I should pull it off the cubes and lees. I racked off the gross lees and I am still on the fine lees. No battonage to date.

Just looking for everyone's thoughts.

I have a couple utility wines in the mix, I was planning to leave them as is until 6 months and assess then. What is the longest you have left a wine on the fine lees?

I'd let it ride for 6 months, can't say why but that is what I've done with good results. From my readings here I seem to remember others have tried different "aging on cubes" timing and it seems 6 months is the sweet spot, iirc.

 

[ceeaton]

It has been 4 1/2 months since I racked my 5 kit yeast experiment. I tasted all today and some are good, some are great.

The Montepulciano Cab Shiraz is wonderfully full and has a creamy vanilla lovelyness. Is there likely any oak flavor left in the cubes. I like it where it is, but I am also dipping my baster into the neck and pulling from where the cubes are floating. Would you expect the flavor is pretty even or am I sucking up a shot of oak?

This is my first kit with cubes.

I am just wondering if I should leave it till 6 months and rack, or if I should pull it off the cubes and lees. I racked off the gross lees and I am still on the fine lees. No battonage to date.

Just looking for everyone's thoughts.

I have a couple utility wines in the mix, I was planning to leave them as is until 6 months and assess then. What is the longest you have left a wine on the fine lees?

Morewine sez this:

Cubes have a longer contact time than traditional chips do, which make them better for long-term aging of wines and beers. Also, longer contact time means longer extraction of flavors (3-6 months), which leads to a more complex combination of flavors. Chips are usually done giving flavor after a week, thereby contributing a harsh, flat oak flavor.

In the past I tend to age wines pretty long, but I'm guessing they give up the goat before the 6 month mark. But if you are aging in bulk longer anyway, why not keep them in, don't think it will hurt the wine.

I just left a Cab Franc on fine lees for 6 months, don't notice a flavor issue at this point. I've done a Chardonnay for 9 months before with no issues.

 

[vinny]

Probably 10 months. IF I rack after clearing it will almost certainly be the last time I rack until bottling… even if that takes a year

I didn't clear, I was planning to leave them for longer than required.

 

[ChuckD]

I have only used fining agents once myself. I usually let time do it. If I have a wine with a lot of solids that don’t settle fast I will rack off of gross lees then again in a few months when clear. After that I will not rack again until bottling. If a wine is pretty clear after that first racking (off gross lees) I would feel comfortable letting it go another 6 months but I like to have cleared wine before I bulk age it for a
Long time.

 

[vinny]

Sound like the consensus is to sit back and let them do their thing.

It's funny how you start to feel like you should do something.

Patience it is!

 

[sour_grapes]

Don't just do something!! Stand there!

 

[Rice_Guy]

Two answers.
1) From Stavin ,,, (the product which MoreWine Sells): chips> 7 days: cubes > 2 months up to a year: segments> 3months up to 18 months: staves > 3 months up to 2 years.
2) traditional wine is done by taste, pull the oak when you like the taste.

 

[vinny]

traditional wine is done by taste, pull the oak when you like the taste.

I like it now.

Too young to know If I will like it more in a month..

 

[vinny]

Don't just do something!! Stand there!

I was mostly just tasting. Calm down!

 

[Rice_Guy]

Extraction is based on thickness. Like a sphere being based on the radius squared, a cube is based on half of the thickness. ,,, At two months most of the flavor is pulled out. You won’t get a big pickup waiting a year.

 

[winemaker81]

The Montepulciano Cab Shiraz is wonderfully full and has a creamy vanilla lovelyness. Is there likely any oak flavor left in the cubes. I like it where it is, but I am also dipping my baster into the neck and pulling from where the cubes are floating. Would you expect the flavor is pretty even or am I sucking up a shot of oak?

Wine has no convection currents, so wine near the oak adjunct will be oakier. You need to stir the wine to get a truer tasting. Barrels are easy, as natural evaporation produces stirring space, which I do prior to monthly topups. For carboys you need to remove a small amount of wine (in a sanitized container, of course!), stir, then return the wine to the carboy.

@ceeaton's quote from MoreWine! matches the experience numerous members have reported. Cubes are expended at ~3 months, but leaving them in longer seems to smooth the wine. I'm doing at least 5 months in carboy and 12 months in neutral barrels.

 

[sour_grapes]

Extraction is based on thickness. Like a sphere being based on the radius squared, a cube is based on half of the thickness. ,,, At two months most of the flavor is pulled out. You won’t get a big pickup waiting a year.

You meant just radius, not radius squared, right?

 

[Rice_Guy]

You meant just radius, not radius squared, right?

Humm, The extraction rate function is an asymptotic curve which approaches zero but never gets there. ,,, To predict/ guesstimate the effective extraction efficiency I would try graphing lab test concentration at depth N vs the square of N and then guesstimate a rate constant K

Humm of course you would be right ,,,, ,,, in the real world I/ plant management ignored thickness extracting oil from soy bean flakes.

 

[sour_grapes]

Humm, The extraction rate function is an asymptotic curve which approaches zero but never gets there. ,,, To predict/ guesstimate the effective extraction efficiency I would try graphing lab test concentration at depth N vs the square of N and then guesstimate a rate constant K

Humm of course you would be right ,,,, ,,, in the real world I/ plant management ignored thickness extracting oil from soy bean flakes.

I was just confused as to why you treated cubes and spheres fundamentally differently.

If the thickness/2 is the appropriate measure for cubes, then surely the radius is appropriate for a sphere. This would be the case if the depth from which the extraction takes place is most important.

If radius squared is the appropriate measure for a sphere, then surely the square of the edge length is appropriate for cubes. This would be the case if the surface area of the solid is most important.

Perhaps reality is in between?

 

[winemanden]

It has been 4 1/2 months since I racked my 5 kit yeast experiment. I tasted all today and some are good, some are great.

The Montepulciano Cab Shiraz is wonderfully full and has a creamy vanilla lovelyness. Is there likely any oak flavor left in the cubes. I like it where it is, but I am also dipping my baster into the neck and pulling from where the cubes are floating. Would you expect the flavor is pretty even or am I sucking up a shot of oak?

This is my first kit with cubes.

I am just wondering if I should leave it till 6 months and rack, or if I should pull it off the cubes and lees. I racked off the gross lees and I am still on the fine lees. No battonage to date.

Just looking for everyone's thoughts.

I have a couple utility wines in the mix, I was planning to leave them as is until 6 months and assess then. What is the longest you have left a wine on the fine lees?

Why not fit a piece of tubing onto the bottom of the baster. That way, you can taste test a sample lower down from the cubes and see if there's any difference.

 

[vinny]

Why not fit a piece of tubing onto the bottom of the baster. That way, you can taste test a sample lower down from the cubes and see if there's any difference.

You know, It's not a crazy idea!

I have a wine thief, too. I will give them more attention in another month and a half.