A 2020 Cab Franc journey with fellow WMT member

[JamesdNorcal]

Crushday - for what it’s worth by cab franc batch is PH 3.82 and I calc’d the TA at .58%.

 

[Boatboy24]

I always cringe a little when seeing how much TA I'm about to add. But (knocking on wood), I've not overshot yet. Measure, add, mix, mix, mix. Then measure again and see where you are.

PS: There are some good videos out there on using the Vinmetrica for pH, TA and SO2.

 

[crushday]

I always cringe a little when seeing how much TA I'm about to add. But (knocking on wood), I've not overshot yet. Measure, add, mix, mix, mix. Then measure again and see where you are.

PS: There are some good videos out there on using the Vinmetrica for pH, TA and SO2.

Thanks, Jim. Since I’m a visual learner, videos are extremely helpful!

 

[Boatboy24]

Thanks, Jim. Since I’m a visual learner, videos are extremely helpful!

I use those videos just about every time I break out the Vinmetrica. They are on the Vinmetrica site.

 

[NorCal]

Looking for some help...I'm really outpaced by naiveté right now.

I have four 44 gallon Brutes full of must. I just ran some initial readings:

#1 Brute: pH is 4.06 (gravity 1.103)
#2 Brute: pH is 4.12 (gravity is 1.104)
#3 Brute: pH is 4.06 (gravity is 1.102)
#4 Brute: pH is 3.96 (gravity 1.104)

Do I want to add TA? If so, how much per Brute. Each has 35 gallons of must.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry, out picking Merlot grapes all morning. Welcome to warm climate grapes, always ripens, but lacks acidity. (The reason our grapes are $1,500 per ton vs. $8,000+ per ton in Napa). I add 1 pound (450 grams) of tartaric per 1,000 pounds of grapes. It moves the pH by .2-.3 At 300 pounds per Brute, that would be 135 grams per brute. This will not get you to 3.65, but I’ve been reticent to adjust more than that and I’m comfortable with 3.7-3.8 pH wines.

 

[NorCal]

Thanks NorCal!

My wife and I had a great time at the Cab Franc crush yesterday, this is our first year making wine. Having the crusher/de-destemmer right there sure beats hand crushing them at home.

My pleasure James, it was good meeting you and hope your Cab Franc goes well.

 

[CDrew]

Welcome to warm climate grapes. I add 1 pound of tartaric per 1,000 pounds.

Just some rough back of the napkin calcs, that's 70 gallons of wine, thats 264L so 1.7 grams per liter. Sounds about right.

 

[crushday]

Cab Franc label...

 

[NorCal]

Lab results from the CF yesterday:

 

[CDrew]

Lab results from the CF yesterday:

View attachment 65352

ANy commentary? Is this pretty typical?

It stands out to me that the TA looks low as does the YAN. ANd the pH is BETTER than I would have expected.

For those with more experience-If I were looking at these numbers, I'd likely add 3g/l of Tartaric acid, based on the projected amount of finished wine. Does that sound ballpark right?

And what will be your feeding schedule?

 

[crushday]

I have a very active ferment. This morning the cap wasn’t nearly as formed. Tonight, very organized...

Exciting times!

 

[stickman]

It is nice to have the numbers from a lab. The malic acid is relatively low and the titratable acidity is also low, so adding tartaric acid to a 3.6 pH shouldn't be a problem. Most of the acid will probably drop out during fermentation.

The YAN I believe should be 121ppm (71+50); that's still fairly low. I would say 2g of Fermaid K per gallon of estimated finished wine , and that may be enough, but if it were me, I would also add about 2g/gal DAP, that gets you to about 300ppm YAN total. As usual split up and add in two or three portions before 10 brix.

 

[JamesdNorcal]

With the acid so low, should I not introduce the MLB? I was thinking of CH16 but maybe no need now?

 

[stickman]

It's winemaker's choice, I always go through ML, I don't want it to happen in bottle.

 

[JamesdNorcal]

Makes sense, I agree.. I did add about 2g/l of Tartaric acid after crush. Hopefully that helps, my PH is down to 3.6 now. Haven’t bothered to check the acid.

 

[BI81]

It is nice to have the numbers from a lab. The malic acid is relatively low and the titratable acidity is also low, so adding tartaric acid to a 3.6 pH shouldn't be a problem. Most of the acid will probably drop out during fermentation.

The YAN I believe should be 121ppm (71+50); that's still fairly low. I would say 2g of Fermaid K per gallon of estimated finished wine , and that may be enough, but if it were me, I would also add about 2g/gal DAP, that gets you to about 300ppm YAN total. As usual split up and add in two or three portions before 10 brix.

@stickman would you mind giving some details on how you calc YAN requirements? I’ve had it on my list to research for a while, but there just aren’t enough hours in the day lately.

 

[CDrew]

I have a very active ferment. This morning the cap wasn’t nearly as formed. Tonight, very organized...

Looks great. How about some details? Yeast, MLB, feeding program, brix, etc.

And, did you pitch before the drive home, or wait until complete?

 

[crushday]

Looks great. How about some details? Yeast, MLB, feeding program, brix, etc.

And, did you pitch before the drive home, or wait until complete?

All good questions... For the ride home I used EX-V and mixed in some kmeta to get to 50ppm. When I got home 11 hours later, I parked in the garage and turned in. Also, I left the garage overhead doors open so I could cool the must with the cold atmospheric air which was 59 degrees when I arrived. The next morning I used a ramp and got all the Brutes on to the floor and started taking readings.

One of the readings was temp. It was 67 degrees so I pitched the yeast - Avante - fearing a perfect atmosphere for microbes. I also added GoFerm and some sacrificial tannins. I questioned the tannins (added them anyway) since there was a few more stems presented in the must than I’m used to seeing. Note: This is my first experience with fresh grapes.

I added enough TA to get the must down to 3.8. And, I pitched the CH16 tonight. Brix (SG) is an average of 1.103 at yeast pitch.

I’ll be performing the secondary fermentation in a 79.3 gallon Speidel plastic storage tank. If I have extra wine, I’ll perform secondary in carboys and/or gallon jugs.

Feeding program? I’m open to suggestions...

 

[Johnd]

All good questions... For the ride home I used EX-V and mixed in some kmeta to get to 50ppm. When I got home 11 hours later, I parked in the garage and turned in. Also, I left the garage overhead doors open so I could cool the must with the cold atmospheric air which was 59 degrees when I arrived. The next morning I used a ramp and got all the Brutes on to the floor and started taking readings.

One of the readings was temp. It was 67 degrees so I pitched the yeast - Avante - fearing a perfect atmosphere for microbes. I also added GoFerm and some sacrificial tannins. I questioned the tannins (added them anyway) since there was a few more stems presented in the must than I’m used to seeing. Note: This is my first experience with fresh grapes.

I added enough TA to get the must down to 3.8. And, I pitched the CH16 tonight. Brix (SG) is an average of 1.103 at yeast pitch.

I’ll be performing the secondary fermentation in a 79.3 gallon Speidel plastic storage tank. If I have extra wine, I’ll perform secondary in carboys and/or gallon jugs.

Feeding program? I’m open to suggestions...

What about MLB? I’m assuming you are planning MLF, 50 ppm sulfite on perfectly good grapes is really rolling the dice......

 

[crushday]

What about MLB? I’m assuming you are planning MLF, 50 ppm sulfite on perfectly good grapes is really rolling the dice......

MLB - I'm lost in a sea of acronyms. No idea what that is - can I phone a friend? If it's malolactic bacteria, I used CH16 - co-inoculated 36 hours after yeast pitch. Also, it was my impression that 50ppm on the SO2 was relatively standard. If not, please correct as I don't want to ruin good wine with poor adjunct management.

Remember, I'm young in the craft...and, a hungry learner.