A Couple Beginner Questions

[Scooter68]

Would suggest for your next batch you step back to something a little easier in terms of fruit types. Some fruits like Rhubarb, Persimmon, Watermelon and any number of others involve some special handling, careful timing, or additives to achieve a enjoyable flavor. Thought I said this on here but it was probably someone else starting out - Follow the KISS principle with your wine types until you've made maybe 2-3 batches with good success. It can be very discouraging to invest money or hard to come by fruit only to have a wine turn out with off flavors or just not have anything close to what you were expecting.
Also take careful and in-depth notes. Include what you did, what you saw, measurements smells, tastes etc. Never heard anyone say, Yeah, I wrote too many notes on that last batch of wine.

 

[G259]

Your first . . . 20 . . . batches will be 'learning batches' (I like to say). I didn't know to experiment with back-sweetening with my first few batches, so they came out very dry and kind of harsh, but the fun is learning, and trying new approaches. I now add sugar, just before bottling, to an SG of 1.000 - .998 (I like my wine on the drier side, adjust to your own liking!).













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[wineview]

Well, that was fun.

SG was just below 1.000.

Racked it into a very sterile bucket, cleaned and sterilized the carboy and returned the wine to the carboy. Returned air lock. It looks like I need to add some white wine to top it off. I’ll get that tomorrow, dissolve the SO2 in some and add it.

Wife is skeptical but I’m bound and determined to make this work.

Thanks for the help.

Ps...carboy wasn’t bad to clean.

Not being a smart *** but many many years ago when I started brewing beer, I was very sternly corrected when I used the word “sterilized”. Actually you are “sanitizing”. Good luck with the wine!

 

[Arne]

If you havn't yet, try tasting a little bit. Will probably be dry, but if too dry, add a bit of sugar to the glass. When it comes time to sweeten the batch, you have to add k-meta and pot. sorbate to keep the batch from starting to ferment again. If you like it dry, you do not have to sweeten it. Arne.

 

[justsipn]

Would suggest for your next batch you step back to something a little easier in terms of fruit types. Some fruits like Rhubarb, Persimmon, Watermelon and any number of others involve some special handling, careful timing, or additives to achieve a enjoyable flavor. Thought I said this on here but it was probably someone else starting out - Follow the KISS principle with your wine types until you've made maybe 2-3 batches with good success. It can be very discouraging to invest money or hard to come by fruit only to have a wine turn out with off flavors or just not have anything close to what you were expecting.
Also take careful and in-depth notes. Include what you did, what you saw, measurements smells, tastes etc. Never heard anyone say, Yeah, I wrote too many notes on that last batch of wine.

Well, like I said, I used Rhubarb because it's what I have and I have a lot. I do a lot of my own hunting, fishing, gardening....etc. So, I like to source my own food. This is something I've always wanted to try with it. After you wrote this, I got to thinking that I have some friends who grow wine grapes. I might think about buying some from them for a batch. I'm not sure what kind of grapes they grow. Also, I bought a journal and have been taking as meticulous of notes as I can. Since I've started posting here, there are a few entries that state..."the experts say....".

 

[justsipn]

Your first . . . 20 . . . batches will be 'learning batches' (I like to say). I didn't know to experiment with back-sweetening with my first few batches, so they came out very dry and kind of harsh, but the fun is learning, and trying new approaches. I now add sugar, just before bottling, to an SG of 1.000 - .998 (I like my wine on the drier side, adjust to your own liking!).














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Well, at my age, and if I end up doing one batch per year, that means I will get it down about the time I'm 74. I think my wife will give up on me before then.

I'm aware of the back-sweetening and plan on probably doing some. I've heard that rhubarb wine can be on the dry side. I like dry wines but my wife likes a little sweeter wine. So, I'll attempt to fall somewhere in the middle.

 

[Rice_Guy]

I do a 95% rhurbarb/5% raspberry which is called Rhurbarb Blush.
* As @NorCal says oxygen is not your friend. As a result I try to rack three times max. Rhurbarb blush clears well so this works. Every transfer gets metabisulphite, my quality improved a few years back when I assumed there was no residual SO2 and added the calculated 50 ppm primary, 25 ppm racking and 60 ppm bottled.
* last years batch was 52 lbs producing 7 gallons after racking. Yup this is stronger than yours, ,,,, after doing best of show I’ve convinced everyone in the vinters club that more fruit is better, ,,, I aim for knock your Sox off aroma and taste. ,,, Yup basically no water in it.
* expect to backsweeten, this will increase the fruit flavors. My percent acid is high so I aim for 1.015. A guess is yours will be balanced at about 1.000
* I see the post on hard to do, ,,, for me this has been an easy wine once I upped the antioxidant (metabisulphite)

 

[justsipn]

I do a 95% rhurbarb/5% raspberry which is called Rhurbarb Blush.
* As @NorCal says oxygen is not your friend. As a result I try to rack three times max. Rhurbarb blush clears well so this works. Every transfer gets metabisulphite, my quality improved a few years back when I assumed there was no residual SO2 and added the calculated 50 ppm primary, 25 ppm racking and 60 ppm bottled.
* last years batch was 52 lbs producing 7 gallons after racking. Yup this is stronger than yours, ,,,, after doing best of show I’ve convinced everyone in the vinters club that more fruit is better, ,,, I aim for knock your Sox off aroma and taste.
* expect to backsweeten, this will increase the fruit flavors. My percent acid is high so I aim for 1.015. A guess is yours will be balanced at about 1.000

Great....thanks for the info. I was hoping someone on here had good info on rhubarb wine. I actually used 10 lbs rhubarb and 2 lbs of a mix of strawberries, blueberries and raspberries. I have thought that next time I'm going to use more fruit to get the same amount of wine. Question on the SO2. does it take color away every time you add it? The one time I added it, it ruined an off white color and most of the pinkish red it came back, but not all.

Also, I've learned that I need a wine thief. One is on order and headed my way.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Color loss from SO2 depends on the type of fruit. Raspberry retains color well. The worst I have seen has been cherry, one year I added calculated metabisulphite directly to the cherry as it was thawing. Normal is to dilute with water so the ppm in solution isn’t as high. (ex maraschino cherry production completely decolorezes the fruit with SO2 and adds artificial color)

! 2019 and 2018 samples

 

[Scooter68]

If you have access to wild or domesticated blackberries, that's an easy wine. A number of other common "country wine" fruits are Blueberries , Plums, Apple, Peach etc some have a tendency to clear slowly (Apple & Peach) others a little acidic but these are good stand-alone fruits for wine. I fully agree with using what you have but if what you have is a challenging fruit for wine making - you can find yourself unnecessarily frustrated. That's the reason for my suggestion. I recently took up flying RC Planes and with that hobby you have to either have very deep pockets or learn to limited what you try to do until you get the hang of some the quirks of RC plane flight. Same with wine making. By starting out with something simple you can learn the routines and master the basics without ramming your head in the wall. Watermelon for example is very quick to spoil and many a first time watermelon wine maker has posted here about how their first batch began to spoil before the yeast could generate enough alcohol to preserve it. Other fruits lack certain elements or need help with things like tannin or LOTS of sugar to reach a fermentable level. It's all part of the learning process and sometimes a step-by-step approach gives better results that you can repeat than jumping into the middle of a challenging ferment.

 

[justsipn]

If you have access to wild or domesticated blackberries, that's an easy wine. A number of other common "country wine" fruits are Blueberries , Plums, Apple, Peach etc some have a tendency to clear slowly (Apple & Peach) others a little acidic but these are good stand-alone fruits for wine. I fully agree with using what you have but if what you have is a challenging fruit for wine making - you can find yourself unnecessarily frustrated. That's the reason for my suggestion. I recently took up flying RC Planes and with that hobby you have to either have very deep pockets or learn to limited what you try to do until you get the hang of some the quirks of RC plane flight. Same with wine making. By starting out with something simple you can learn the routines and master the basics without ramming your head in the wall. Watermelon for example is very quick to spoil and many a first time watermelon wine maker has posted here about how their first batch began to spoil before the yeast could generate enough alcohol to preserve it. Other fruits lack certain elements or need help with things like tannin or LOTS of sugar to reach a fermentable level. It's all part of the learning process and sometimes a step-by-step approach gives better results that you can repeat than jumping into the middle of a challenging ferment.

Thanks, I forgot (and you reminded me) I have a lot of wild plums around me. That might be interesting to try.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Plum has pectin so lots of pectase to help it clear.
The tree ripened plum I have is moderate acid so I mix it with more acidic fruit as currant or rhurbarb. My normal target is pH 3.2 to 3.4.

 

[justsipn]

Plum has pectin so lots of pectase to help it clear.
The tree ripened plum I have is moderate acid so I mix it with more acidic fruit as currant or rhurbarb. My normal target is pH 3.2 to 3.4.

When you mix it with rhubarb, what ratio do you use?

Is there a cheap way to measure acidity? I noticed in another thread there's a piece of equipment that costs $120. That might not go over well.

 

[Scooter68]

I invested in a basic pH meter and you can find one for $20-30. The key with ANY of them is to keep them calibrated using calibrating solutions so just make sure that what you buy has some of that with it to get you started. Calibration should be checked frequently (every couple of weeks if you are using it a lot) . Even the big high-dollar units require calibration checks. So you can start with an inexpensive one and replace it if it goes goofy or dies. My first one delveloped a flaky on/off switch but still works if I can get it to stay on.

One last thing - keep a gallon of distilled water around for cleaning/rinsing and preparing calibration solutions.

Here's a very inexpensive unit that should get you started. Just remember to clean after use and follow basic steps"
Store with the sensor in distilled water
Soak sensor in distilled water for a couple of minutes before use
Clean and rinse after use.
Calibrate before use if it's been a week or more since last use.

https://www.amazon.com/Accuracy-Mea...keywords=pH+meter+wine&qid=1588173679&sr=8-16
Buffer solution/powders:
https://www.amazon.com/15-pack-Buff...ywords=pH+meter+buffers&qid=1588173854&sr=8-3
So for about $25.00 you can get started with a digital pH meter. (PLus that gallon of Distilled water.)

 

[Rice_Guy]

I measure pH with an Extech pH stick (the cheap ones work good enough).
i titrate %acid with 0.2 N sodium hydroxide and the pH meter. Originally using a kit and for years just buying sodium hydroxide from the wine toys store.
! ,
I don’t own a wine thief, a syringe works or mom used a turkey baster
In 2017 I simply said the plum is pH 3.62 and cornelian cherry is pH 2.87 so mix a ratio of roughly 2 to 1 to get target pH. (Doesn’t always work if %TA is high, but an easy starting point)
Back sweetening fixes high TA

 

[Scooter68]

Thanks to Rice Guy for mentioning TA measurements. Some folks use pH, some TA, some both, some NONE of the above. A digital pH meter can be used for TA as well and it's very simple. IF you get tempted to measure that sometime, you can search for directions on that. It only requires 1 additional test chemical but the down side is that the test sample has to be discarded instead of returning it to the bucket/carboy as you do with a digital pH tester.

 

[VitnerHydrologist]

Your first . . . 20 . . . batches will be 'learning batches' (I like to say). I didn't know to experiment with back-sweetening with my first few batches, so they came out very dry and kind of harsh, but the fun is learning, and trying new approaches. I now add sugar, just before bottling, to an SG of 1.000 - .998 (I like my wine on the drier side, adjust to your own liking!).













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Not to derail from the main thread, but I’m also a beginner here. Do all wines need to be backsweetened? I’m making a batch of strawberry wine right now and I’m worried about it being too sweet. I feel like rhubarb might be different, though?

 

[cmason1957]

Not to derail from the main thread, but I’m also a beginner here. Do all wines need to be backsweetened? I’m making a batch of strawberry wine right now and I’m worried about it being too sweet. I feel like rhubarb might be different, though?

Most fruit wines end up tasting better if they are backsweetened. You shouldn't worry about your strawberry being to sweet, ferment to dry, allow to stabilize, then add Potassium metabisulphite and potassium sorbate, then backsweeten until you are happy with it.

Most red wine isn't backsweetened, most white wine from grapes might or might not be. It really depends on what tastes best to you.

 

[BernardSmith]

Here's the thing: there really is not very much difference between making wine from wine grapes and making what is often called country wines - wines from all other fruits and vegetables. Making the wine is the same BUT wine grapes are typically cultivated to contain all the sugars and all the acids and tannins that you need to make a wine that you can bottle at around 12-14% ABV. ( a starting gravity of about 1.090) Other fruits - berries, or stone fruit or citrus or even bananas and vegetables - from zucchini to rhubarb to turnips do not have as much sugar and may be more or less acidic than grape wines and are unlikely to have the tannins that you find in red wines so as wine makers we need to taste and measure the substrates we are going to ferment and so modify them as necessary... but if you know how to make a good rhubarb wine you can make a good honey mead or a wine made with hibiscus flowers or elderberries or wine grapes.

That said, in my opinion, most of the material that is self published on the web is like any vanity published work - mainly garbage. Better is to check out books that have been trade published. They often have fact checkers, editors and a requirement that the author tests their recipes before they spend a penny printing.

 

[justsipn]

Ok, I took out a small sample.

It has a very sweet fruity smell. It has a fruity bitter taste. Wife wasn’t impressed.

Quote from her: “ smells like it should be a sweet fruity wine like Edelweiss but has a bitter taste.

Added the SO2. Took the nice pink color away again. Hope it comes back again.