Add grape to a a pail of Juice?

[cmason1957]

And for what it is worth, I am a luddite and say the only benefit from co-inocculation is that you can put in Kmeta sooner. I choose to let the malolactic fermentation take as long as it wants to and add it after alcohol fermentation is complete and I have racked it off the gross lees. I figure it's what the wineries I have talked with do, no reason not to follow suit.

 

[Mario Dinis]

Experience has shown that you need at least a 10 gallon trash can to do this with. You almost need that much, even if you don't add the lug of grapes.

Thanks, I'll have to get one of those.

 

[Mario Dinis]

6 + 1.75 = 7.75, giving you no room for your caps to rise. I’d say no.

Thanks

 

[Mario Dinis]

Good thing I went to Gino Pinto's for my Malbec. Called Corrado's yesterday to try to get some Chilean Pinot Noir and they are closed. Called Europa Pombalense and they'll have juice and grapes only in September...maybe.

 

[Mario Dinis]

Looks like it's time for a 20 gallon Brute. Then transfer to a more oxygen deprived carboy at 1.0 SG? Maybe 1@3, 1@5 gal carboys, one with oak, one without.
With a Cab or Malbec, should I buy some CH16, or just let it go?

CH16 is good stuff. I used last year for the first time and it worked out great.

 

[kevinlfifer]

I am late to the discussion. I always try to add grapes to juice pails (drums). Here's how I break open my grapes. de-stems as well.

Rubbing grape bunches through an upside down plastic milk crate also works. You get purple hands though.

 

[Spencerthebuilder]

A thinset mortar mixer. Excellent! And it seems to de-stem as well. Wish I'd thought of it. And my complements on your workstation cabinetry..

Any advice on a ph tester? Is a cheap digital one adequate for a one or two batch a year guy? Or does one have to spend up towards $100+?
Initial must target ph is 3.4 to 3.6 for a hearty red?

 

[Mario Dinis]

A thinset mortar mixer. Excellent! And it seems to de-stem as well. Wish I'd thought of it. And my complements on your workstation cabinetry..

Any advice on a ph tester? Is a cheap digital one adequate for a one or two batch a year guy? Or does one have to spend up towards $100+?
Initial must target ph is 3.4 to 3.6 for a hearty red?

I have this one.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ST3VTQ4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Spencerthebuilder]

Thanks Mario. Pretty much what I had in mind. Would you buy it again?

 

[Mario Dinis]

Thanks Mario. Pretty much what I had in mind. Would you buy it again?

Yes.

 

[CDrew]

@Spencerthebuilder - realize that buying a pH meter is more complicated than buying a pH meter. You need calibration standards, Storage solution, and if your going to measure TA you also need 0.1N NaOH. as well as some lab gear like pipettes and burettes.

So the pH meter is just part of the process, not the whole process.

And for the record, I have this pH meter which I can highly recommend:
https://www.amazon.com/Extech-PH220...qid=1589388465&sprefix=extech+,aps,232&sr=8-5

 

[kevinlfifer]

I worked in extractive metallurgy research lab at BrushWellman (now Materion) for 10 yrs. pH calibration and storage was a pain. Not to mention the glass probes broke when you sneezed on them.

I never test pH. If it tastes sour I add CO3, if too sweet/flat, I add acid. Just me being sick of pH technology.

I figure kits and most juices are already pH stabilized. I never do all grape wine so I figure I get a pass on that testing. I'm basically lazy.

 

[Spencerthebuilder]

Hmm. Clearly there is much to the acid discussion and much to learn. Certainly one gets what they pay for, but CDrew, what makes yours that much more, and do I need it?
Ph and TA:, Tune for ph and let the TA be what it wants to be?
Why adjust acids by liter of expected juice, as per Morewine's Shea Comfort, then add to the must and eventually discard 1/3 of the must. Seems that would lower adjusted tartarics by 1/3?
Or just adjust after Malo?

 

[sour_grapes]

I worked in extractive metallurgy research lab at BrushWellman (now Materion) for 10 yrs.

Cool! I didn't know that. I buy my beryllium from Brush-Wellman. I remember the acquisitions of Electrofusion and CERAC (here in Milwaukee), but I must admit I missed the name change to Materion. (Haven't bought any beryllium in a while, I guess!)

 

[CDrew]

Hmm. Clearly there is much to the acid discussion and much to learn. Certainly one gets what they pay for, but CDrew, what makes yours that much more, and do I need it?
Ph and TA:, Tune for ph and let the TA be what it wants to be?
Why adjust acids by liter of expected juice, as per Morewine's Shea Comfort, then add to the must and eventually discard 1/3 of the must. Seems that would lower adjusted tartarics by 1/3?
Or just adjust after Malo?

You probably don't need the Extech but it is a much better meter. Just having the electrode on a cable is a huge convenience and being able to replace it anytime is also good. But it's easy to calibrate, holds the calibration all day at least, logs data, automatically measures temperature and corrects for it. It's still a relatively inexpensive meter which can run to the $1000s depending on what they can do. Start with a cheap one and if you stay with it, and use the applied chemistry they imply, then get a better meter when it dies.

I'd be careful about "tuning for pH". Many california grapes are relatively high pH. If you added enough Tartaric to get the Ph way down, you'd risk making it sour. I'd balance the two as much as possible until you have a lot more experience. Most authorities do think that adjusting before fermentation is better than after. For me personally, I did some after adjustments with the 2019 grapes and they still turned out pretty good. But for 2020, I fully plan to make the main adjustment up front, and then make very minor adjustments after MLF.

 

[Ajmassa]

you can get away with a cheaper one definitely. Break that one first lol. I did. Because the main thing is proper care. Something I learned the hard way. 4.0,7.0 buffers. Stored wet. (Storage solution or 4.0 buffer)
Careful too. some Chinese cheapos have funky calibrations which are impossible to find aside from powder form. Huge hassle.
This guide below will probably answer most other questions too. Not just a step by step by also explains ‘why’, written for homewinemakers, not pros or chemists:
Guide to Red Winemaking
And while I’m at it: Ph Meter Use & Care

 

[BMarNJ]

@Spencerthebuilder I have just racked off and started MLF on a batch with a pail and 18lbs of grapes. I use a 10 gallon brute and hand destem and crush, use a mesh bag and squeezing for the pressing. All very simple. But I started another post yesterday because you will end up with almost 7 gallons after the rack off the gross lees, and what to do with the extra that won’t fit in the carboy. I ended up bottling it, and rigged up some airlocks while I wait for universal bungs to arrive. I’m saving this wine to use for top-ups as I rerack if is holds up.

 

[pete1325]

My guy, John Duich, came through again, Thanks John. I picked up my Chilean juice pails yesterday and two lugs of grapes. Destemmed by hand last evening, crushed with a 2 x 2 and started the ferment this morning. My first time adding grapes to the pails.....hoping for more body. I plan to macerate for two weeks or until it hits 1.00 SG. The temp of the must is low, around 62 degress f. sort of cold now, should warm up soon as the day warms.

 

[Mario Dinis]

My guy, John Duich, came through again, Thanks John. I picked up my Chilean juice pails yesterday and two lugs of grapes. Destemmed by hand last evening, crushed with a 2 x 2 and started the ferment this morning. My first time adding grapes to the pails.....hoping for more body. I plan to macerate for two weeks or until it hits 1.00 SG. The temp of the must is low, around 62 degress f. sort of cold now, should warm up soon as the day warms.

Great. Going to do the same this Fall.

 

[pete1325]

Get a power destemmer/crusher if you can. just doing two lugs was a pain. we use a power one during the fall crush. I didn't think it would be a big deal to do two lugs, but it was a pain.....