Adding distilled spirits to wine

[acorn]

The reason I ask is that I've had that fear in a batch that didn't go dry. Sorbate won't stop it, so you would have to rely on an incompatible environment for the yeast to not come active again in the future. Perhaps the risk is negligible, but, how would you know?

If that was the kind of drink you where after 10% is far too low u need to go for 18 to 20% abv in order to kill the yeast off and prevent further fermentation in the bottle or later on (most yeast drops off from fermenting around the 18% abv mark) from that point you can back sweeten without the need for sorbate etc and the wine will preserve for a very long time, due to lack of sorbate.

I agree that the risk of renewed fermentation is there. Normally, I wouldn't take chances, but I think the case with cranberry is exceptional.

The combination of the hostile acidic pH, sorbate and exess (40 ppm) K-meta at bottling which is very effective at this pH, and the fact that the yeast I used (Red Star's Côte des Blancs) has max alcohol tolerance of 12-14% and is said not to ferment to dryness from the beginning, make it an unlikely environment for the yeast to restart after I add more spirit. Hence, all considering I am doubtful of any grave consequences.

 

[NorCal]

acorn, thanks for explanation, I'm always learning.

 

[PhilDarby]

Sorry acorn i was off on a tangent ;-)

 

[acorn]

Sorry acorn i was off on a tangent ;-)

Not at all. On the contrary, thank you for challenging my vision. It makes me think critically about what I know on the subject, what has been done, and what to expect based on the experience of other wine makers and my own, too.

 

[ceeaton]

So say that I was going to attempt a fortified cranberry port or something of the like, would an easier procedure be to fortify it with more fermentables up front and use a yeast that would approach the 18-20% alcohol range, ferment it dry, and then stabilize with kmeta and sorbate and then back sweeten to taste?

Just trying to learn something new.

 

[acorn]

So say that I was going to attempt a fortified cranberry port or something of the like, would an easier procedure be to fortify it with more fermentables up front and use a yeast that would approach the 18-20% alcohol range, ferment it dry, and then stabilize with kmeta and sorbate and then back sweeten to taste?

Just trying to learn something new.

You would need to add a distilled spirit to the desired % alcohol by volume when there is a certain amount of residual sugar left while the wine is still fermenting (how much depends on your taste). Once you add the high alcohol spirit so that the overall alcohol content reaches 18% or more in your wine the environment will be toxic for virtually any yeast to survive. Once you bypass this alcohol threshold in alcohol there is no need to add sorbate.

The best is to try to have as much sugar in your wine initially so that your yeast ferments it to as high alcohol content as it can. Then you add distilled spirit to the desired alcohol content level (though it will add alcohol, it will also dilute flavor, depending on how much you add and what you add).

What I did here with my cranberry is more of an experiment, and based on the discussion that has been going in this thread, I would advise against doing it my way, if port-style wine is what you want to end up with.

 

[NorCal]

So say that I was going to attempt a fortified cranberry port or something of the like, would an easier procedure be to fortify it with more fermentables up front and use a yeast that would approach the 18-20% alcohol range, ferment it dry, and then stabilize with kmeta and sorbate and then back sweeten to taste?

Just trying to learn something new.

I did 1600 lbs of Zin with a couple guys this season. The brix spiked to 31 and despite being watered back, it got stuck at 7 brix. We got it to referment, but I took 5 gallons of the 7 brix wine, added brandy up to 20% alcohol. It is not too sweet and I'm really looking forward to having it finish, so far it tastes great. Sugar is certainly cheaper than brandy, but I think the brandy adds depth to the overall taste.

 

[acorn]

I did 1600 lbs of Zin with a couple guys this season. The brix spiked to 31 and despite being watered back, it got stuck at 7 brix. We got it to referment, but I took 5 gallons of the 7 brix wine, added brandy up to 20% alcohol. It is not too sweet and I'm really looking forward to having it finish, so far it tastes great. Sugar is certainly cheaper than brandy, but I think the brandy adds depth to the overall taste.

That's quite a bit of grape there! I guess, if you were aiming to make port-style wine of all this wine it would definitely make sense to allow the yeast to ferment as much alcohol on sugar when it comes down to such quantities, before adding any distilled spirit. It's just not very mind boggling for me to bother with the difference in price of sugar and a bottle of brandy when all I am contemplating is 5 or 6 gallon batches.

 

[NorCal]

I guess I could use some junk brandy. It took two 1.75 liters for my 5 gallon batch. Costco Christian Brothers Very Special Brandy, 1.75 liter – $34.30. I guess $70 isn't a mind boggling amount of $, but for discretionary hobby, it's something that registered with me.

 

[Thig]

It took two 1.75 liters for my 5 gallon batch.

That's why I use 190 proof Everclear.

 

[PhilDarby]

damn I closed down a window I was typing in lol, anyway im supping a rather awesome sweet sherry, well, port type wine, I made it to age in a barrel, I got from ebay several months ago, so far I`ve traced its history as far back as the three salmons inn, roserstone, gwent wales uk in 1978, from its original seller, Ive also got doubts its oak, due to its wood grain pattern, when compared to known oak.

When I got this it had no tap and no stand, so they are non original, its reputed to be a vintage Spanish sherry barrel, of un known age, although I do believe it is very old, so after making a fortified wine from some rather harsh acid tasting wine I had and adding napoleon brandy, several months ago, it has now mellowed out, the predominant taste being caramel, with only a slight taste of acid, Ive only got one gallon of this and had a sampler earlier then another etc ;-) its really very very nice, anyway pictures are below,if anyone has any ideas on the barrels age, suggestions are welcome too ;-)

Tbh this was the reason I was a bit off the other day, because I hadn't read all the posts and this was on my mind.

Anyway that's what im supping tonight;-)

 

[acorn]

Nice picture. What did you make it from, and how much alcohol you fermented on yeast before you fortified it? Just curious.

 

[PhilDarby]

To be honest I cant remember all the exact details, but, when it arrived and I pondered what to make, I had some red type wine on the go, cherry, I think it probably was, with some red welches grape in, I did a rough estimate on abv, added some sodium metabisulphate and napoleon brandy to bring the abv around the 18 to 20 mark, then back sweetened to 1.024, after taking sg readings from some commercial cream of sherry specifically qc and house of Windsor, they where then blended, in the mix as well, after a few glasses ofc ;-)

The wine I already had under way, as a drink in its own right, I just decided to use it to blend into sherry, after winning the barrel, on ebay, at the time it was around 14 to 15 % abv in its own right and was fairly close to its final sg, although I don't recall taking exact readings.

In effect I raised the abv 4 to 5 % using 35 % napolean brandy.

But, reading back on your needs what ever spirit you use would prob work in similar fashion, to achieve your desired abv, if you hit 18 to 20 % abv you wont need to worry about re fermentation so much, if you intend to drink it short term, that wont really matter, just aim for whatever you feel like adding,to suit your tastes.

 

[acorn]

Okay, so I was surprised to find a bottle of 192 proof ethanol (96% by vol., imported) on the shelf of a nearby liquor store. I decided to get it and conduct my bench trials. So I set up 4 glasses and added the spirit to wine in proportion 1:85, to have original 10% alc./vol. wine as control, then +1%, +2%, and +3%. After tasting myself and asking a few people to try, I came to a conclusion that +2% glass tasted the best, so I will boost the alcohol content in my entire batch by 2% to get a 12% wine.

I'll be bottling in about 2 months.

Thank you all who contributed to this thread.

Special thanks to Steve (aka vacuumpumpman) for his tips on removing harshness from distilled spirits.