Another one of those Welch's White Grape & Peach wine threads...

[mhopkins]

Thanks @cmason1957
... It seems I've read that peaches can be difficult to clear. I'm thinking of 1/2 teaspoon of pectin enzyme per gallon. Any thoughts on this? More? Less?

I finished up a 6-gallon peach batch last month. Delicious! But, it was very difficult to clear. I used 1/2t/gal. If I do another batch I will go with 1t/gal. Or, even 1.5t/gal.

All the best to you with this batch! Mark

 

[Intheswamp]

That would come out to around 5-1/4 teaspoon of pectic enzymes for 3.5 gallons. wpt-me said that he used 2-1/2 teaspoons for a 3.5 gallon batch and it turned out good. I think I may hit somewhere in between here. I'll keep the peach, pears, and apples in mind for future reference, thanks for sharing that!

 

[Intheswamp]

I apparently missed your post, Mark. I appreciate the feedback and the best wishes. With both you and cmason1957 leaning toward a higher dose I may just go the heavier-dose route. Seems that *somewhere* I had read that high doses of pectin enzyme could possibly be harmful for a wine that is aged long term. I'd like to stick at least 1-2 bottles of each wine that I make back for an extended period. I guess I can find out if this is true, eh? Maybe bottle a few 375ml bottles and taste-test along the way.

 

[Intheswamp]

I was just looking at Jack Keller's site and his Grape & Peach recipe calls for 1-1/2 teaspoon of acid blend for a gallon batch. That seems kind of strong....doesn't it?

 

[mhopkins]

I'd like to stick at least 1-2 bottles of each wine that I make back for an extended period. I guess I can find out if this is true, eh? Maybe bottle a few 375ml bottles and taste-test along the way.

You are more disciplined than I, my friend. This batch is going fast with family and friends. Compared it with two commercial peach wines when I was looking for something to top up the carboy. They were both only mildly peach and sickeningly over-sweet. This one is so different (and folk like it!) that I think it will be exhausted soon and I'll have to make another batch. When I do, I think I'll go your route with canned or frozen peaches instead of peach puree. I think your approach will result in even more robust flavor. If you are indeed disciplined enough to put some back, I hope we have a chance to hear how that turned out! Mark

 

[mhopkins]

I was just looking at Jack Keller's site and his Grape & Peach recipe calls for 1-1/2 teaspoon of acid blend for a gallon batch. That seems kind of strong....doesn't it?

I used lemon juice instead of acid blend -- 16oz for the 6-gal. batch.

 

[wpt-me]

I added 1 can (29 oz of Del Monte sliced peaches) along with the syrup, to use less sugar.
Pectic enzymes I used 2 1/2 teaspoons.

Bill

 

[Intheswamp]

Well, I don't know about discipline, Mark...we haven't got to that point yet. Basically it's just me and a buddy that will be drinking this. My daughters might get a bottle all along. We'll see how my "vintage" bottles go.

Yeah, the canned peaches are an attempt at lowering the amount of refined sugar while increasing the overall flavor intensity. I'm like you, I'd rather have a dry or, at the most, a semi-dry wine. The really sweet stuff is a little too much for me.

Bill, how much additional sugar did you end up adding?

 

[wpt-me]

First add was to get from start of 1.062 to 1.090 S.G. , then to finish at 1.012 semi sweet!!

Bill

 

[Intheswamp]

Gotcha.

 

[crabjoe]

How does it taste? Is it something boone's farm would sell, worse or better?

 

[cmason1957]

I apparently missed your post, Mark. I appreciate the feedback and the best wishes. With both you and cmason1957 leaning toward a higher dose I may just go the heavier-dose route. Seems that *somewhere* I had read that high doses of pectin enzyme could possibly be harmful for a wine that is aged long term. I'd like to stick at least 1-2 bottles of each wine that I make back for an extended period. I guess I can find out if this is true, eh? Maybe bottle a few 375ml bottles and taste-test along the way.

I have never heard of read that pectic enzyme in high doses might cause off flavors. I have always heard and believed that pectic enzyme is something you can use as much as needed. Perhaps you are thinking of potassium sorbate, which in high disses can cause bubblegum taste.

 

[Intheswamp]

No, no, it wasn't k-sorbate and a bubblegum taste. It seems it was talking about the wine would peak out and start declining in quality quicker. I'm sorry but I can remember the specifics and may have dreamed it...my mind isn't what it once was.

 

[Intheswamp]

I think the quote from the linked article below is what made me think the above situation with pectin enzymes. It seems to be just a basic warning that the enzymes *could* cause the wine to mature quickly and to watch the wine for this. It really doesn't say anything about using too much of it. I feel better about it now, my misinterpretation.

An unfortunate side effect of using pectic enzymes is that they can speed up the maturation of finished wines. Care must be taken when bulk aging the wine to make sure that it doesn’t over mature before it is bottled. This can lead to flat wines that come across as being past their prime.

 

[Scooter68]

Call me a skeptic but if that info about Pectic Enzymes was an acknowledged issue, I believe it would be more widely written about and yet as cmason1957 said, I've never heard anything negative mentioned about pectic enzyme having any impact on wine long-term. I've also see a couple of bits of info from that source that were not in sync with a majority of other sources on a couple of topics. Perhaps with specific conditions or based on one or two anecdotal reports that may have happened, but; I've never heard of PE having any negative impact on wine even in higher doses.

 

[cmason1957]

You are being a little bit nicer in your words than I might be from winemakers academy. It is generally one guys opinions and I don't believe he makes wine any longer.

 

[Intheswamp]

Thanks for sharing the information on WMA with me. I'll steer clear of it from here on out. I stay confused well enough by my own doings...

 

[Scooter68]

I just keep noticing a lack of anything resembling 'scientific evidence.' No studies, research - as indicated it seems to be opinion stated as fact that we are expected to believe.

I know this sounds like a repetitious old story but... In diving when scores are given they toss out the high and the low score. Connection to wine making...?
Well when I see ideas or practices that wander way out there from the common methods, I question them and normally let others take those paths. In this case I've never heard any other source state that PE can do bad things or can be used excessively with bad results and certainly I would like to hear some sort of analytical info as to why. The same can be said for You Tube "How To" videos. A lot of really odd solutions to all sorts of things out there. To be certain there is a lot of money being made on YouTube so the temptation is great to 'get creative.'

Oh well, back to the waiting game with my aging wines.

 

[CDrew]

PE=Pectic Enzymes?

If so, i agree they are great. I use the formulated ones, ie Lallezyme EX or EX-V and I'm 100% sold. I've tended to use the prescribed, normal, recommended amounts. For sure, the color and flavor extraction is better. Much better. I don't know what would happen at higher doses.

It would be interesting to see a fermentation done with say 4X the recommended amount of enzymes and see if that made things better or worse. It may be a kinetic thing where the recommended amounts, already do 100% of the benefit.

I'm drinking a 2018 Primitivo I made tonight just to see how it's going. It got Lallezyme EX, and some wine-stix oak and I have to say it will be good in a year or two! Right now it's still pretty big in the tannin department. But it's good. It seems if anything, the enzymes would make the wine take longer to age to perfection, due to the higher tannin extraction.

 

[Scooter68]

Yes - PE = Pectic Enzyme

A lot would depend on the type of wine Grape, Peach, Blueberry, Apple etc. and if you are using fresh fruit or prepared fruit juice. I hit Peach Mango/Pinapple and Apple wine very heavy with PE either powder or currently my liquid stuff. Others, unless the pulp is known to be heavy with pectin or has been difficult for me in the past, I stay with standard amounts, unless "my hand twitches" and I increase it a bit.