Anyone using oak barrels?

[Wade E]

I did not know that some Champagnes were oak aged. I really dont like many at all whtes wines oaked but love the oak monster on a big red!

 

[JohnT]

Be careful of aging in small barrels. The ratio of interior surface area to volume is significantly greater than in larger barrels -- you could get FAR more oak flavor than you want.

Bryan

I agree!

We tried to age in a 5 gal oak barrel and realized that it was a big mistake.

ask yourself this... WHY???

we were more interested in having a wooden keg to look at than actually improving the wine. The keg had such small volume and high surface area, that we needed to top it off every 2 weeks. In the end, the wine got too much oxidation. NEVER AGAIN!!!!

My advise is to either go with a much bigger volume (say 10 times bigger) or just simply keep it in the glass and experiment with oak cubes (euro med toast is my favorite). If you use oak cubes, think of the money left over for more grapes!.

johnT.

 

[BarrelMan]

I think you can better control the amount of color and flavor the wood imparts by using a barrel; in a barrel you can start tasting in just a few days and continue tasting ever so often till you get what you want; I don't know if you can do that with oak cubes. In the smaller new barrels two weeks is a long time, it can really impart a lot in that amount of time. But the smaller and newer the barrel the less time needed to mature.
But one must learn a lot about barrels and the climate where the barrel is kept is very important too, if it's too dry the barrel will soak up more of the liquid inside.

 

[JohnT]

Barrelman,

I am not sure what you mean.

Why would I not be able to taste the wine?

I can taste the wine, and when I feel there is enough oak flavor, I can then rack the wine off of the oak (thus stopping the process). I never let the wine sit on cubes for more than 6 - 8 weeks, and if not enough oak flavor in the wine, I can then start the process over again.

 

[BarrelMan]

White oak barrels also serve another purpose; beer and wine has oils and about 7%of bad alcohols including methanol, the charred oak barrel reduces the percent of bad alcohol and oils which are in large part responsible for hangovers. I suppose charred oak cubes might do the same, and since it doesn't have to be watertight then perhaps cubes of red oak could be used as well instead of more expensive white oak.

Maybe all those barrels we see in the breweries, wineries and distilleries are just props and they are actually using cheap red oak wood chips?

All I know for sure is the results I get using my white oak barrels; I start with the best product I can come up with, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, and after it comes out of the barrel it is so good I get real greedy with it.

 

[Wade E]

Just like any barrel the firdt uses will need to come out much earlier and as time goes on the wine will be able to stay in much longer. Micro-oxygenation is the main use of a barrel and this cant be replicated in glass or steel.

 

[JohnT]

Wade,

Couldn't Micro-oxygenation also be acchieved by bottle aging with cork? Could simple splash racking give the same result? perhaps a combo of the two? or will barrels be the only was to achieve this?

johnT

 

[JohnT]

White oak barrels also serve another purpose; beer and wine has oils and about 7%of bad alcohols including methanol, the charred oak barrel reduces the percent of bad alcohol and oils which are in large part responsible for hangovers. I suppose charred oak cubes might do the same, and since it doesn't have to be watertight then perhaps cubes of red oak could be used as well instead of more expensive white oak.

Maybe all those barrels we see in the breweries, wineries and distilleries are just props and they are actually using cheap red oak wood chips?

All I know for sure is the results I get using my white oak barrels; I start with the best product I can come up with, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, and after it comes out of the barrel it is so good I get real greedy with it.

I have yet to see any wooden kegs used for storing beer. Bud says "beachwood aged" by throwing slats of beachwood into SS Storage tanks. I do not know of any micro-brewery that uses wooden kegs.

There are many, many micro wineries that do not use kegs and opt for cubes. The cost of kegs is simply prohibitive. I know that only a hand full of wineries out on the north shore of LI and in the finger lakes of NY opt for kegs for this very reason.

Distilleries use kegs in order to obtain color as well as flavor. The nature of high octane whiskey makes it better suited to the use of kegs.

My point is that the expense for 5 gals of wine is not worth the reward and risk. For larger volumes of wine, kegs may make more sense.

johnT.

 

[BarrelMan]

Please see my new thread Oak Aged Beers under Beer making, will make your mouth water

 

[Wade E]

Micro oxygentation ca really only be acheived in barrels as the corks arent poous enough and we wouldnt want them to be either. Barrel aging also lets the wine concentrate alsowhick makes a wine fuller bodied.

 

[Rock]

Micro oxygentation ca really only be acheived in barrels as the corks arent poous enough and we wouldnt want them to be either. Barrel aging also lets the wine concentrate alsowhick makes a wine fuller bodied.

I couldnt agree more Wade hit this on the head!I have new and re-coped barrels.30and15 gallon barrels 2 of each.So i never used a 5.I aged a cab/merlot in a new french oak 30 gallon 8 months transferred the wine into a 3 year old barrel for micro-oxgen.Also have wines going on 12-14 months in different barrels.Bottled some wines aged in glass with oak cubes,when you do side by side comparison the barrel wins hands down.Big difference Oak Barrels Rule

 

[JohnT]

Guys,

This WINEMAKINGTALK site is fantastic. I went into this thread very skeptical of oak barrels, but after the last two posts, I am not so sure anymore.

A couple of weeks ago, I got my hands on a clean used winebarrel to use as a piece of furnature (59 gallons for $90). I now think that, perhaps, I will give it a try!!!!!

That said, do any of you have any recomendations on cleaning and preperation (prior to fill)? Soaking? Perhaps washing out with SO2 solution?

 

[winemaker_3352]

The only thing that i have heard before - is that when it is not in use it should be stored with water to avoid the wood from drying up and leaking.

Again - that is just what i read somewhere long ago.

 

[Rock]

Hey John,wine barrels are expensive,90bucks yea you just use for flower pots.Barrels should always be filled,www.morewine.com has instructions on barrel management.I have 2- 30 gallon re generated barrels french oak,1 brand new 30 gallon french oak and a 15 american oak and share 1 with my brothers,who also have barrels of their own.Its diffently more work cleaning and when racking is also alot of work but well worth the out come.If your interested you should try maybe a recoop or regenerated barrel,but keep in mind make sure you clean and sanitize like you would normally,you will love the wine that you get,and always keep your barrel filled.

 

[rodo]

I agree with Rock, this is about as good a guide to the care of oak barrels as I have found, here is the link http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wobcg.pdf

Here is the link to MoreWine's page of guides lots of good info there,
http://morewinemaking.com/content/manuals

 

[JohnT]

Thanks everybody. I am determined to keep an open mind.

Like I said before, I bought the cask to use as furnature (about 3 weeks ago). The bung was tightly sealed (which I think is a very good sign).

I did do one thing though. Rather then purchase a new steel stand for the cask, I made one out of an 8 foot 2/6. Works well.

I followed the directions in the MOREWINE) post (again, thanks) and started by first pouring about 10 - 15 gals of light SO2 solution into the cask. Spun the cask every minute or so for about an hour. stood the cask up so that both barrel heads could get soaked.

after sveral hours, I then proceeded to fill the barrel. It sure did leak (projectile) for the first several hours. I just kept topping it off. Slowly, the leaks stopped. Now the cask is holding water and the whole outside of the cask is BONE DRY. It is currently filled to the brim.

ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS:

My plan is to ferment in glass, then put the wine into the barrel on the first racking. I currently have the cask filled with water. I plan to keep water/SO2 solution in the cask until then, while changing the water every week. Does anybody see any problems with this??????


What do you folks use to seal the barrel (bung hole)? If the wine is rather new, but fermentation is complete, shouldn't I still be using a rubber stopper and fermentation lock? Are there any risks of pressure buildup if I seal with a cork bung? Any reason for NOT using a rubber stopper and trap?


Again, thanks for all of the advice. I am really excited to see how the wine truns out.

johnT.

 

[Rock]

John,i do the same as your plan so i dont have a problem with it.2nd i use an airlock then go over to a rubber cork that fits your barrel.You will want to be able to check your wine and keep your barrel full at all times.What kind of oak is your barrel?What kind of toast?and how many gallons is it?
Good Luck to you!!

 

[Wade E]

Here is a good chart to bung sizes.
http://www.finevinewines.com/Bung_Sizing_Chart.htm
and here is a good place to buy them. I would use the silicone rubber stopper.
http://www.finevinewines.com/index.htm
Next year I will be getting a fw barrels, the crusher/destemmer and press set me back enough this year!

 

[Tom]

Was @ Gino's picking up my juice and they had Oak Bourbon Whiskey Barrels for sale @ $120. Now my homebrew club are considering it for Brew. What would Wine taste like in a bourbon Barrel?

 

[Rock]

Was @ Gino's picking up my juice and they had Oak Bourbon Whiskey Barrels for sale @ $120. Now my homebrew club are considering it for Brew. What would Wine taste like in a bourbon Barrel?

I dont want to upset anybody,so id rather not say.