Apple wine without a press

[hounddawg]

Chuck probably figured this out, but I'm pretty sure Dawg meant pectase (AKA pectic enzyme).

i wish i'd heard sooner matie
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

i wish i'd heard sooner matie
Dawg

 

[BernardSmith]

Perhaps that’s why my apple wines haven’t turned out insipid despite adding water to them. Or maybe they are and I like them that way.

Actually the first wine I made (it was apple) called for 20 lbs of apples for 5-gallons of wine, not to squeeze out the must, and to top up with cold water. My experience with cooking told me just pack in all the apples I could and always top up with apple juice. I also did squeeze the juice from the must…It turned out great.

I wonder if NYS apples are less flavor rich than the apples in your neck o' the woods. We expect a starting gravity above 1.050 and a pH of close to 3.2 but then, this is for cider and not so much for wine. and there are many orchards around here that press their apples specifically for cider makers so they label their containers with all the useful and necessary vitals.

 

[ChuckD]

I wonder if NYS apples are less flavor rich than the apples in your neck o' the woods. We expect a starting gravity above 1.050 and a pH of close to 3.2 but then, this is for cider and not so much for wine. and there are many orchards around here that press their apples specifically for cider makers so they label their containers with all the useful and necessary vitals.

I’ve tasted apple wines that go from light Riesling, where you have a hint of apple flavor, to hard apple cider. I enjoy both. I would say you don’t have to guess which fruit mine is made from.

I haven’t tried cider yet, maybe when my trees mature and I get a larger basket press. I don’t know of any local orchards that press for you.

 

[ChuckD]

Well 48 hours ago I racked off the cleared wine then pressed the lees through a 75 micron bag, sulfated, and put it back in the carboy. That half carboy of lees compressed to about 1.5 quarts of solids. I topped up with 100% apple juice.

That’s more like it… only about an inch of lees today. I’ll wait until it clears then rack again and bulk age for at least three months.

Lesson learned. I was hoping to avoid the straining bags but no such luck. Next time I’ll just plan better and press the apples… I will however add skins and pressed pulp in a bag in the must.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Chuck, if you freeze at least two days then thaw you should get good yield and less solids than a grinding process. The general guide with grinders is less than 4mm / pea size gives problems.
@BernardSmith NYS apples/ finger lakes apples are the same varieties as grown in the Midwest. I have access to trees that gives low acid as well as tannin as well as red flesh/ high acid and most importantly fruity aromatics. Given a few more years I should even be picking Kingston black (European “perfect” cider variety) ,,,

 

[ChuckD]

I racked and sulfited the other day. Both are bone dry and a little harsh right now. They definitely need a little aging. It’s hard to tell now but the 71B has more apple flavor.


Does anyone add oak to their apple wine? Just wondering if it would benefit.

 

[Rice_Guy]

What do you want as a finished wine? Can you try a glass with a drop of oak extract?

Oak is good at giving more body to a weak wine. If you have low apple notes and want apple notes I would look at back sweetening with frozen apple concentrate. ,,, If the long flavor notes are low I would add a smooth/ astringent flavor tannin. Another choice is More Wine has English concentrate from tannic variety apples ,,, Last night Cider Farm held a tasting of imported ciders. One of the selections was a Spanish product done in chestnut barrels. It had lactic acid front notes (likely went through MLF) and I would describe it as thin/ low body/ low tannin/ bitter (possibly the chestnut).

 

[Raptor99]

I regularly add a little bit of oak to my hard cider in secondary. My first batch of apple wine is in secondary on a small amount of oak. The apple juice available to me is low in tannins, so it benefits from oak. If I had access to some higher tannin cider apples I would probably not need the oak.

What do you want as a finished wine? Can you try a glass with a drop of oak extract?

Great idea!

Changes I might make:
* More apple flavor: add apple concentrate
* More complexity of flavor: try blending different types of apples
* More astringent/body: oak/tannin
* More body/perceived sweetness: add glycerin
Of course you also need to balance these with acidity, alcohol level, and sugar. When everything is in a nice balance, you get an awesome drinking experience.

 

[ChuckD]

What do you want as a finished wine? Can you try a glass with a drop of oak extract?

Oak is good at giving more body to a weak wine. If you have low apple notes and want apple notes I would look at back sweetening with frozen apple concentrate. ,,, If the long flavor notes are low I would add a smooth/ astringent flavor tannin. Another choice is More Wine has English concentrate from tannic variety apples ,,, Last night Cider Farm held a tasting of imported ciders. One of the selections was a Spanish product done in chestnut barrels. It had lactic acid front notes (likely went through MLF) and I would describe it as thin/ low body/ low tannin/ bitter (possibly the chestnut).

Since apple is such a light wine I’ll probably add a half a spiral per carboy. I will definitely try apple concentrate for back sweetening. And I have some glycerin that I may try as well.

 

[Rice_Guy]

The apple juice available to me is low in tannins, so it benefits from oak. If I had access to some higher tannin cider apples I would probably not need the oak.

you are in Oregon, you have tannic apples available if you hunt it out
I planted a Kingston Black on suggestion of someone in the vinters club. Next meeting he said “you’re going to wait seven years for that tree to produce. , , , therefore hunt out some crab apples. At this point I have my favorite flavor crab at church AND a dozen crabs planted under power lines on a near by street AND a yellow crab variety in a neighbors yard AND a 1.5 inch wild apple along a farmers field AND a weeping crab variety at the local nursery.
The Kingston isn’t old enough to produce yet, but I have played with grafting and have finally picked the first Kingston grafted on an older rootstock. , , , At the arboretum about 20% of the crab varieties have soft tannins that I could use.
, , , , my power line crabs are dry enough that I soak them in apple juice or white grape after crushing , , , and have used this “tannin tea” at 1 to 5% in white grape must and rhubarb wine and currant etc., , , soft apple tannins taste better than what I can buy in a bottle

 

[Raptor99]

you are in Oregon, you have tannic apples available if you hunt it out

I'm sure that I could find some, but I don't have an apple press. I might try freezing and crushing, but what would be even better would be if I could find someone locally with an apple press who would be willing to let me use it.

We are thinking about planting Kingston Black. I think that it was one of the varieties that is a bit more difficult to grow and disease prone.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Yes I hear about the Kingston issues. I probably will not depend on it since crabs work well and by now I have looked at other varieties.
I am at 35 to 40 gallons in 2022. Freezing worked and gives a cleaner juice than crushing. To work well it takes two plus days of hard freeze. A small 30” freezer is enough for my press. It works since not all trees ripen in one week.

 

[ChuckD]

Bottling day today! You could tell the difference in yeast. The 71B was smooth and more fruity. The EC1118 was sharper… more acidic tasting. I mixed them both together and lightly back sweetened. I also had 4 gallons of already mixed wine that I oaked. You could just detect the extra tannin. 73 bottles total!

One problem though… I couldn’t find my favorite 1/4 t measuring spoon so I grabbed a different one. Only after bottling the first 10 gallons did I realize it’s 1/8t . So I have 52 bottles with a half dose of K-meta. Should I be OK if it’s consumed within a year or two? It had a full dose in April when it went in the cellar.

 

[Ohio Bob]

I would keep the bottles separate and turn it into an experiment.

 

[ChuckD]

I would keep the bottles separate and turn it into an experiment.

No problem there. The last carboy was sweetened more… darn near to desert wine levels. Not for me but we have family members who will only drink sweet wines.

 

[winemaker81]

You could tell the difference in yeast. The 71B was smooth and more fruity. The EC1118 was sharper… more acidic tasting.

Did you reserve either, unmixed? If you saved 2 bottles of each, it would be interesting to see how they differ 6 and 12 months from now.

Should I be OK if it’s consumed within a year or two? It had a full dose in April when it went in the cellar.

Should be good for 2 years. I would not worry about it.

 

[Charles DeVier]

Last fall, I made apple wine much the same method as ChuckD. I ground 6 pounds of apples and added about 2 1/2 pounds of sugar. I also skimmed out the fruit from the must with a kitchen strainer and put the liquid into a 1 gallon jug.
The wine turned out great; slightly bubbly and what I call semi-sweet. One of the better wines that I have made.