Argon for topping up

[bruno]

I've been using argon for everything from 5 gal carboys to 80 gallon Flextanks. Seems to work well.

 

[chachi44089]

I sure didnt mean to sound like there is NO danger in messing with argon. Do not open a cylinder indoors or in a small room or closet! Only top off in a garage with the door open. Or use a balloon to transport it inside as I do. A carboy topped off in a well ventilated area, then moved to a closet is not going to be a danger at all. And do not mess with a tank without a flow meter! "any tank". This will let you control the amount coming out of the tank safely so you dont blast 2000psi of argon out. That could be trouble. Just set the flow meter to 5-6 cfpm, put the hose in the carboy for a second or two and pop the airlock on. Store the carboy the way you always have. You will only have a few ounces of argon in the top. Not near enough to suffocate you. My experience in this comes from two years of school, 22+ years as a professional welder, and training from OSHA in the handling and use of compressed gasses. I have tig welded in shops with ten other tigs all running argon at about 25 cfpm "ventilated". But if your going to use argon "or c02" just keep the area where you work with it well ventilated. And remember you only need a little bit. I recommend for those inexperienced to open the garage door and just fill a balloon, then you dont have to worry about having enough to suffocate you. Also keep your tank chaind to the wall or a pole so it cannot fall breaking the valve or flowmeter off. CO2 on your kegging equipment is just as dangerous as agon for suffocation. The safety difference is just that agon tanks contain a much greater volume of gas than food grade c02 kegging tanks. Just be safe and open the shop doors before you open a tank of anything.

 

[joea132]

I've been looking into this as well. From what I can tell, argon is not a long term storage solution and the protective barrier will dissapate over time. That being said I still am going to purchase a tank and regulator to try for myself.

As far as safety is concerned, most home winemakers use small tanks and even with a leak, it will not cause enough displacement of oxygen to cause an atmosphere that is whats called IDLH or Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health. Normal oxygen saturation is 21% with 19.5% becoming an atmoshphere that is beginning to become dangerous. The area I make wine in is a basement with doors leading out to a garage, so the spilled gas would ventilate itself out. The point of having children crawling on the floor is a valid issue though.

While certainly not an "expert," I am a career firefighter and confined space rescue techincian.

 

[ibglowin]

The use of Argon (or any gas) is definitely not a long term solution.

A few weeks to a few months at best. You should backfill every few weeks if your using an airlock. You can go longer if your using a solid stopper. Argon being heavier than air wants to go down, not up into the atmosphere. I use it these days to backfill my carboy while I am waiting for the fines to settle out (1-3 weeks usually) After that I rack and top off with a like wine. My other use is for topping off a sep funnel for a few days waiting for the gross lees to settle back down and out. Then I add the wine back to the carboy so I need less topping off.

I do the same with any bottles of wine that I feed my Vadai barrel. Each week I top off the barrel and backfill the top off wine with Argon and cork it.

It is not a cure all but it does come in quite handy for certain uses.

 

[chachi44089]

I've been looking into this as well. From what I can tell, argon is not a long term storage solution and the protective barrier will dissapate over time. That being said I still am going to purchase a tank and regulator to try for myself.

As far as safety is concerned, most home winemakers use small tanks and even with a leak, it will not cause enough displacement of oxygen to cause an atmosphere that is whats called IDLH or Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health. Normal oxygen saturation is 21% with 19.5% becoming an atmoshphere that is beginning to become dangerous. The area I make wine in is a basement with doors leading out to a garage, so the spilled gas would ventilate itself out. The point of having children crawling on the floor is a valid issue though.

While certainly not an "expert," I am a career firefighter and confined space rescue techincian.

Be sure to buy a "flow meter", not a "regulator"..A regulater adjusts pressure but not the amount "volume" of gas coming out of it. You may set the pressure very low on a regulator, but still have way too much gas coming out. The flow meter is very low pressure, but allows you to adjust the amount "flow" of gas coming out of it. This allows you to easily set it for a few cfpm so you get e very gentle whisp of gas. This way you wont blow it out too hard, mixing it with air not getting it gently into the carboy. You want to put the argon in very slowly so it can push the air in the carboy out. A flow meter does this best.

 

[ibglowin]

What?

Yea, they both measure different types of gas flow but both can be set to flow from 0 to whatever. Either will work just fine for winemaking purposes.

 

[Runningwolf]

The flow meter is a must and less expensive then a regulator.

 

[ibglowin]

I will put my two stage regulator up against your flow meter any day of the week bro....

 

[chachi44089]

What?

Yea, they both measure different types of gas flow but both can be set to flow from 0 to whatever. Either will work just fine for winemaking purposes.

Its all about using the right tool for the job, and using it the way it is intended to be used. They do not both measure "flow". One measures pressure "regulator". And one measures the "flow" in cfpm. With a pressure regulator "two stage or not" you can only guess as to how much 'volume in cfpm" of gas is coming out. A flow meter will tell you exactly how much gas is coming out, and allows proper adjustment of it. Sure you CAN use a pressure regulator, but if he is buying new equipment, I recommend he buy the gauge best suited for the job. Not just one that will work. And I do know that neither were intended to be used in wine making, but only on fits the job the best when it comes to adding an "amount" of gas to a carboy. And that is a flow meter. I say this because in TIG, MIG and some flux core welding operations, the pressure of the gas is of little or no concern. Only the amount of gas in cfpm is what is important to shield or protect the molten deposition metal from oxidation. Much the same as wine. He should buy a flow meter.

 

[ibglowin]

$25 is a great price.