Banana Bochet Port

[the_rayway]

Hey Deezil,
What I didn't see in your assessment was if you like it! It sounds amazing to me, but...?

 

[Deezil]

Sorry, its quite amazing lol

But it's not done..

I still want to add some form of oak, some of this chocolate extract I made, and some vanilla extract

 

[the_rayway]

Too funny.

I sort of feel like there is no such thing as 'done' in this hobby. There's 'I like/don't like where this is right now'. But it always seems to change

FYI, I went out and got a 40Lb box of bananas ($16!!) and I've set them out to ripen.
"insert evil laugh" ::

 

[the_rayway]

Hey Deezil,
Can you please give me your opinion on this tentative recipe? I don't have any of the Opti/Booster products, so I'm doing without on this one.

1 Gallon Banana Bochet Port - tentative recipe
30 Lbs Bananas - ripened to black peels
2 L Peach/Pear Syrup
3 Lbs Canola honey, to red
3 Lbs Canola honey, to brown
Pectic Enzyme & Amalyze
ICV-D254 yeast
American (cubes) & French Oak (dust/shavings)
2 Vanilla Beans
Nutrient & Energizer, in stages
Brown Sugar to step feed (at around 1.030 up to 1.060, twice)
Starting S.G. 1.090
Finishing S.G. TBC (would like to get it to ferment to at least 14%)

Fortifier (using Pearson's Square for final amounts)
- 2 bottles of EJ VSOP
- 5 Lbs Bananas stuffed in

I'm trying to layer some flavours in there along with the bananas. The peach/pear syrup is from canned fruit, and I'm hoping it will contribute a bit of subtle stone fruit flavour, ICV-D254 is for the butterscotch, cream, smoke and hazelnut. Vanilla and oak to layer in, brown sugar to bring molasses, and the bocheted honey for depth.

 

[Deezil]

Looks pretty good to me, for getting your feet wet..

Two things;

Might want to be careful using brown sugar; I've never done it before, I know it can be done, but I dont know what kind of flavor profile that will bring.. Could be good, could be bad...

No unadulterated honey? Lol.. Maybe swap the 2nd addition of brown sugar out with regular honey, to bring some of those unburnt flavors to the party? Just a thought..

All in all, sounds good, and will be fun to see how it turns out

 

[the_rayway]

Thanks Deezil!
I'm still very much in the beginning stages of developing port-style wines, and have some hold-backs in terms of additives. Ah well, i get my hands on them some day

I'm going to think about the brown sugar a little bit. I have enough honey to put some 'unadulterated' stuff in. I've heard good reviews from others, specifically in a dried apricot wine. TBC for sure.

Part of it is, the wildflower honey I used last year leaves a slightly unpleasant flavour in the wine. Don't get me wrong, the stuff I've made is good (yaay silver medal!) but it's that flavour that I'm concerned about. The caramelized honey doesn't seem to have that flavour. That's the reason I'm going for the canola honey this time - try something different!

Cheers!

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

You might want to caremalize all of it to at least really dark stage without really really being burnt from your description of what you want. Save some of it to backsweeten with, I would follow Deezil and drop the brown sugar, the bochet honey will be a much richer flavor than any brown sugar.

Deezil, where you been, hop the fires out west arent blowing to much smoke your way.

WVMJ

 

[Deezil]

Deezil, where you been, hop the fires out west arent blowing to much smoke your way.

WVMJ

They've burned pretty close to the family property, this year, but the structures are still standing, so all's well..

Been around, always reading.. just haven't been posting much lol

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

I guess the silver lining is that it burnt up most of the fuel so you dont have to worry much more about it this year? GOOD LUCK, WVMJ

 

[Jericurl]

Yeah....I'm gonna need an update on this one...

 

[ckassotis]

Gave this one a start on Monday, and it is happily foaming and fermenting away. I used 10 lbs of bananas in the 1 gal with the brandy, as Deezil suggested.

Unfortunately I didn't get a good shot of the bananas before I added them to the primary... but they were pretty black - really on the border of getting too ripe. That's an early pic.

Also attached a pic of the honey, 12 pounds of orange blossom, which I cooked for 3 hours to a nice dark red, and you can see that in the primary before I brought it up in some water. Good Lord Deezil, I see what you meant. Perhaps the largest mess I've made in winemaking yet. Well, perhaps topped by the chocolate volcanoes I got with the chocolate strawberry port, but honey is particularly hard to clean.

Let's see. WY-15 yeast starter while I cooked the honey and overnight after I sulfited the banana/bochet mixture, then added it Tuesday morning.

Now foaming and frothing quite happily, and I'm punching down the bananas every chance I get.

Deezil - did you back-sweeten yours at all? Leave it dry? Right now it tastes absolutely incredible.

 

[Deezil]

You may have done things a little differently than I.
No biggie, it should still be amazing..
But lets see..

Is the brandy set aside, or did you add it to the fermentation?

I had the two going side by side.. Well, three..
Two separate fermentations that I blended together - each of which was bochet'd/caramelized to a different degree.
And the 1-gallon of (20lbs) bananas and 1/2 gallon of brandy, setting aside, all the while.

The first one fermented, I racked to a carboy.
Fermented the second batch, racked it.
Blended those two, and racked them until clear.
While waiting for them to clear, I removed the bananas from the brandy.
When the two-that-became-one batch cleared, I added the banana-infused brandy.

And it's still sitting.
I haven't touched it.
Dry as it fermented.

I owe Jericurl an update, in the worst way.

College quarter ends ~March 18th, so shortly after that, at the latest, I'll have an update.


.. I realize all the pictures are gone from this thread too, sorry..
.. Had some issues with updates that Photobucket carried out and essentially made their website unusable - too many ads, too many movies, too much loading at once..


This is still the best, most complex, most intriguing, and most interesting wine that I've made to date.
It's just absolutely mind-blowing.

Still tastes like bananas..

 

[Jericurl]

I owe Jericurl an update, in the worst way.

I completely understand. I've got stuff sitting in carboys that I should have bottled, etc, 9 months or more ago.

 

[ckassotis]

Hey Deezil, yeah I do think I did things a bit differently, though not too much.

Brandy is definitely set aside - don't think I could have gotten the fermentation going if I had added that at the start. I'm not sure how you got 20 lbs of bananas and the brandy into a 1 gal carboy. While there is some room in my 1 gal carboy for more bananas, coupled with the 1/2gal brandy it is up to the neck. There's no room for anything else in there.

So I used 30 lbs of bananas for the actual fermentation, and bochet'd all of my honey to the same degree. Just combined those all into 1 carboy rather than split them out into two. Slowly fermenting away with the WY-15 yeast now, but looking and smelling good. Will probably ferment dry and let them sit in contact with the bananas a bit longer before racking into a carboy. Should have enough to fill a 3gal, so not concerned with making sure it's still fermenting actively for protection.

Then once it clears I'll aim to remove the brandy from the bananas and mix that with the bochet mead. Then probably aim to age it for a while, but will have to see how I feel about it being dry as a port. Most ports do better with some residual sugar to balance the big body and higher alcohol, so I'll have to wait and see and then decide.

Excited about this one! Eager to hear how yours has turned out!

 

[Deezil]

Oh, score!

You're in for a real treat here, I think.

I didn't weigh the bananas that went into the 1-gallon,
It was just roughly half of the 40lbs I had sitting out.
No biggie, probably closer to your 10 than I originally assumed.

I don't know that it'll be 'dry'.. That's kind of what caught me off guard about it.
The residual sweetness from the bananas soaked in the brandy, seems to have been enough to balance it right out.
But, thats gonna be a little batch-dependent (fruit quality dependent)

Mine was a 3 gallon batch as well though, and the 1/2 gallon of brandy was a perfect ratio

My grandmother, I showed her just the Banana Brandy..
She locked her lips on that bottle and started cuddling it..
It went down "too smooth" she says, just how it was..
She wants more, just bananas and brandy.

Had a 375ml bottle 'extra', on top of the 1/2-gallon for the batch.
Everyone did double takes, that tried it.

So...
Fair warning

 

[Deezil]

I just thought I would chime in here, and give the 'final update'..

So I finally bottled this, after 4 to 4.5 years of bulk aging.
This is easily the pinnacle of my winemaking, by far the most impressive creation I've ever made.

Sadly, the banana faded, but everything else came through. It is balanced, complex and deep in flavor, touches on all parts of the palette, and the flavor lingers for ~5 minutes after the swallow. It'll warm your chest - you know the alcohol is there - but it's smooth, and has a complex sort of spiciness to it that you'd find in something like a Brandy (go figure, eh?).

After ~4 years invested, I would encourage others to follow my methods as exactly as one could.
You wont be disappointed.

The research paid off, and the bottled bochet is a beautiful thing.

 

[sour_grapes]

@Deezil : Manley, it is good to see you surface!

 

[Jericurl]

I was just wondering about this the other day. I've got about 5 meads that I have to get going this winter but this is going on my list of items to try.

@Deezil do you think bulk aging it for a year, then bottling it and letting it finish out would work as well?

 

[Deezil]

Hey Jericurl,

I would imagine so, yeah, as long as it's clear when you bottle.
I tend to bulk age at least 18 months but everyone does it a little differently so I dont see why a year wouldnt work as long as the finished product is cleared

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

You graduate yet Deezil? Nothing like school to make you age in a carboy for 4 years