Banana wine - peels or no peels?

[WVMountaineerJack]

So bananna wines usually clear very fast when you include some peel. I wonder if letting the peel go black and use all its enzymes up would that affect clearing? WVMJ

 

[Deezil]

So bananna wines usually clear very fast when you include some peel. I wonder if letting the peel go black and use all its enzymes up would that affect clearing? WVMJ

Of course, the bananas would use the enzymes to convert the starches in the banana to sugars.. The starches and pectins cause the hazing.. If the starches are gone from the banana, and pectic enzyme solves the pectin issue..

Bentonite should clear up anything else, if its even needed.

Another side effect of letting the peels blacken, is the increased sugar levels in the banana because the enzymes broke the starches down into simpler sugars

Less hazing, more sugars... Why do we use yellow bananas again?

 

[Tess]

black Banana's? this is why I love this forum. Learn something new everyday!! lol

 

[Stressbaby]

Forgive me for being a little skeptical...but I grow bananas, several varieties...what evidence do we have than anything actually "moves" out of the peels?

Dehydration of the peel seems to be a far more logical explanation for thinning or loss of weight. You would have to demonstrate an increase in the weight of the peeked fruit to suggest that anything actually moves from peel to fruit.

And black spots on peels are anthracnose (mold), not the same as oxidation, to be clear.

 

[seth8530]

Forgive me for being a little skeptical...but I grow bananas, several varieties...what evidence do we have than anything actually "moves" out of the peels?

Dehydration of the peel seems to be a far more logical explanation for thinning or loss of weight. You would have to demonstrate an increase in the weight of the peeked fruit to suggest that anything actually moves from peel to fruit.

And black spots on peels are anthracnose (mold), not the same as oxidation, to be clear.

At the very least the dehydration of the nannas will result in less water content and thus a higher sugar to mass ratio meaning sweater nannas!

 

[Deezil]

There's a difference between anthracnose and the ripening of the banana.. Just to be clear. They both visually affect the banana in the same sort of manner but there is a definite difference in whats really going on.

Here's a good publication that shows what anthracnose IS

There are, however, enzymes that react with the chlorophyll within the banana, essentially chewing it up - which is why the 'green' in a banana goes away. It's this same process, that swaps green-for-yellow, that inevitably sends the banana down the path to turning black.

WylieE did a pretty good job here hittin the nail on the head

"Enzymes present in fruits, mainly polyphenol oxidase cause the browning in damaged fruit. Normally polyphenol oxidase works in plants as a defense against insects. When activated this enzyme turns phenols in the plant into quinones, these quinones then turn into melanins which have beneficial properties to the plant- antibacterial, anti-fungal, and UV protection (another good reason to eat your fruits and veggies). Melanins are dark in color and so make the areas where they are present appear brown.

In healthy plant tissue the phenolic compounds are stored in the vacuole, well separated from the polyphenol oxidase enzyme so no activity happens. However, when a cell is smashed, cut, or otherwise tortured, the separating membranes are ruptured and polyphenol oxidase can access the phenolic compounds and start the process of turning them into quinones and then into melanins."

Now, with this in mind, remember that bananas produce their own form of a pectic enzyme, which is why as a banana ripens, it softens as well. This is a form of self-mutilation, basically 'smashing, cutting or otherwise torturing' its own cells to begin the ripening process.

It's this same rupturing of the cell walls that leads to the oxidation that I hinted at before.

I dont know why you'd have to see a weight change to acknowledge movement. There isnt any weight difference. These guys did a study on it, among other things. Chemical compounds dont weight that much though..

There's more information here than you can read in a day

If you haven't, give this thread of mine a read.

Page 7 shows a blackened banana without any signs of anthracnose. The pages before, show the ripening process as well as some of the quotes I mentioned. I thought I had saved/linked to the papers I pulled the quotes for, I try to make it a habit, but I guess I didnt those couple times

You'll see that dehydration is a non-factor, as the banana actually becomes more liquid as it ripens.. If the banana gives off anything, its gas - ethylene. Definitely doesnt shed enough moisture to make up for the loss of thickness in the peel within my experiment though.

If you're still skeptical after the experiment I did, after the links I've provided and after finding some white papers on your own time.. All I can tell you is to go buy 40lbs of bananas and let them sit around for 3 weeks like I just got done doing.. Only had about 6 bananas with anthracnose on them, others had some white surface mold and crown rot but cant really expect anything less.

The rest of them blackened up amazingly well and I've made the best banana bread I've ever had from them.

Hope I didnt hurt your head too much

 

[Stressbaby]

Thanks Manley. I have read your thread but I'll take a look at these other links.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Folks add banannas to unripe fruit to help them ripen with the ethylene. I am hoping to bottle our banana mead over the next couple of weeks, its so clear its like a prism! WVMJ

 

[Stressbaby]

Yes, I made a batch of Dwarf Nam Wah wine several weeks ago and I must say it cleared faster than any other wine I've ever made. I included 1/2 pound of Nam Wah skins.

 

[wineon4]

I make gallons of Banana and I don't use the peels and I don't cook the fruit. I put it in the blender with a small amount of white grape juice to help blend it.

 

[wood1954]

so the big question is, does banana wine taste good or is it just cheap to make. the smaller question is, do you backsweeten it?

 

[BernardSmith]

I have no idea what banana wine tastes like. I see that there is a tradition of making wine from bananas in East Africa and I am curious to know what that wine might taste like. I see that some of the more traditional methods of making such wines involve a great deal of chance in areas (such as mine) where such wines may be rather rare, so I am planning on making use of more modern techniques where I have more control and where there will be less risk of bacterial spoilage.

 

[wineon4]

I have made Banana wine often. Last year I made a 30 gallon batch and this year a 10 gallon batch. I enjoy it, looks like a Chardonnay and taste like it, also along with a wisp of nice mild Banana flavor. My last years vintage received a Silver at Pittsburgh's Wine Completion, 3rd bottle from the right in my avatar. I deviate from most Banana recipes, as they call for using the peels and cooking the Bananas, I peel them then liquefy them in a blender along with some white grape juice. I think it is a very nice wine.

 

[Deezil]

If you let the banana peels turn black before you use them, I promise you, it will both smell and taste of bananas. I cant vouch for yellow-peeled bananas. But black peeled bananas ? Oh my.. It's not just a "whiff", thats for sure

But because this is a mead AND a port... It'll be some years (5-8) before I really know how good it is

Sounds like wineon4 might have been speaking of yellow-peeled bananas, because there's no way what's on my winemaking table is anything like a Chard

 

[wineon4]

Made 6 gallon last evening. A local food service gave me 80lb of over ripe Bananas. I peeled them, then pureed them in a blender. the 80lb made 6 gallon of Banana wallpaper paste, added only enough water to melt the sugar. Hope to rack out about 4 gallon when all is said and done. I have had judges tell me that the wine made with peels has an oily feel in the mouth, I can't say because I have never used the peels. I have 20lb frozen maybe I will make a gallon with them using the peels and compare to my collection of Banana. Yeah I have a nice collection of Banana in bottles as it is one of my favorite fruit wines

 

[wood1954]

well, after reading all these posts i started 15 lbs of bananas about 12 days ago. So far i'd say it's going to turn out pretty good. It's under airlock now, i added too much sugar so had to add EC-1118 yeast to finish it off. I'm going to try another batch; this time without the peels and add one pound of sugar per 3 pounds of bananas. At 39 cents a pound this will be a good one to experiment with. Thanks everyone for your inputs.

 

[vernsgal]

in my banana wine,no peel, I added a vanilla bean and apple concentrate in the secondary. It's been aging 6 mos. now am excited to give it a taste in another 3 mos.

 

[wineon4]

verngal, vanilla bean sounds good I may pull out 1 gallon of my current batch and try it. I made 6 gallon of Maple wine( I tap trees and make my own Maple syrup) so this year I boiled 40 gallon of sap down to 6 gallon and made wine, I added 100% pure vanilla extract to it then some mulling spice and it is a great wine. I call it my breakfast wine to drink with pancakes in the morning. My Banana is going into the secondary this evening. I think it is getting to warm mid 90's in my area for the past week and now the banana cap has gone off and is now mixed through out the wine may need to strain it before transfering to the carboy. With this heat it went dry in 6 days. I have 100 lb of rhubarb and 70 lb black raspberries frozen ( need freezer space ) but may wait until it cools down around here.

 

[saramc]

I have to share, on 10/1/12 I had started a banana port-style wine (banana port thread) with total OG of 1.122, D-47 yeast, and used the peels....and I sampled it this past weekend when I was giving it its quarterly k-meta dose & it is absolutely amazing. I had originally planned to fortify with banana-infused brandy but am reconsidering because it is crazy good as it is now, maybe I will do some port-style and some original.