Sorry, I havent been on here as much as usual as there have been 2 kittens stray in my back yard and they were just too small to leave out there with temps around 5* at night so I trapped both of them yesterday and then felt real bad bout leaving the mother so got her a little while ago. I dont have a trap so really had to be inventive with a cat carrier, roast beef, and and a long string and many hours watching it freezing my a$$ off! They are all doing good now as my wife actually just bathed the momma. The kittens arent much bigger then your fist.