Bigger batches, new problems...

[PricklyPear]

Hi,
I've just started a batch of persimmon wine which is the biggest I've ever done (over 300Kg of fruit).

Anyway... since the sieving the fruit from the must when transferring to the secondary is quite a lot of work (it breaks down to tiny fragments that clog the sieve very fast) I started wondering how the pro's do it.

Can I just transfer the must to the carboys and rack the wine after the fermentation is done and all the sediment has sunk? Can such thing damage the wine somehow?

Thanks!

 

[e-wine]

Per Jack Keller's comments on presimmon wine:

"Do not be concerned if a lot of fine pulp gets through; it will precipitate out."

All the commercial press/straines I've seen, the fine stuff will get through but I am fairly new at this. I hope that helps.

e-wine

 

[upper]

I transfered mine into a 5 gallon water bottle yesterday.I started with almost 6 gallons in hope of a 5 gallon batch.After looking at it this morning I am in the 3 gallon range.Lots of pulppppppppp.Upper

 

[Sacalait]

If the fruit pulp is placed in a paint straining bag while in the primary the job of straining the gross lees is much easier. Once the majority of the wine is poured off into the secondary the bag can be tied up to drain.

 

[upper]

Sacalait,the bag deal is good,but it is a no Go-Go with the Persimon.You lift the bag and it is like a ballon.I slowly strained dumped and strained and dumped for a while.This is the first batch of anything I have used Pectin in...Upper

 

[e-wine]

I did some searching on line to see how they strain larger batches. It's expensive. What I did with the pumpkin wine was to carefully skim off the cap and strain it first, then strained the rest which had less flesh. I used a nylon mesh bag. I can't imagine straining 300Kg of fruit that way unless I had a few bottles of wine, multiple bags and some eager friends. But I know I'm not spending the money for a commercial quality strainer unless I go commercial (which I'm not.) Take care.

e-wine

 

[Sacalait]

Sacalait,the bag deal is good,but it is a no Go-Go with the Persimon.You lift the bag and it is like a ballon.I slowly strained dumped and strained and dumped for a while.This is the first batch of anything I have used Pectin in...Upper

OK,OK, I've never made persimon wine and from what you've said I don't intend to. There are just too many other fine fruits out there to make into wine.

 

[arcticsid]

All due respect Prickly, but before even attempting to make that much, these considerations should have come to mind! How many gallons will that much make?

I hope you find a solution, sounds like a real pain in the A$$, and quite annoying. I hope someone can help you find a way to get through this.

Troy

 

[upper]

If you got em smoke em....Dig-it....Upper

 

[PricklyPear]

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies.

I made a smaller batch last year (about 50Kg of fruit) which turned out quite nice and there was a lot of fine pulp (50% of the volume more or less).
I've also experienced this with other wines such as guava wine.

I originally planned to skim off some of the cake but this year the yeasts& pectic did an awesome work and there was no cake at all after a day or two.
This probably means that the pulp will be even finer than last year and even harder to filter. This is basically why I thought of keeping the fruit till fermentation is over and then rack the wine out.

 

[arcticsid]

Prickly, how many gallons?

Man. I hope you can filter it. I would think you want the fruit in there during the initial ferment. Pectin E should help alot. But it WILL NOT work during an active fermentation. Even if you added it it before you pitched your yeast and it didn't do what you expected, wait till you transfer it to the secondary, and add the appropriate amount. AFTER fermentation is complete.

I don't know about this particular fruit but straining through a nylon stocking(panty hose). a paint straining bag, cheesecloth, all sound like ways to strain some of this off. Patience is probably the best thing, but, noone in here is a doctor!

Time will settle it, guaranteed! How long? Not a flippin clue.

Let us know how it comes along. If you can post a picture or two.

Troy

 

[Sacalait]

If I made wine regularly that yielded only 50% of the original I think I'd have to devise a centrifuge to remedy this.

 

[arcticsid]

Hear you there SAC, I started a thread awjile back like this. If I start with 5 gallons what do I end up with? Of course different fruits will be different, but through settling etc., seems like to actually get like 5 gallons into bottles you want to start with at least 6 gallons.

Thoughts?

Troy

 

[e-wine]

Based on what I've read, if a recipe is for one gallon, you top up to one gallon with cool water after each rack. The recipe compensates for this. I don't know how it works with grape wines but so far, that's what I've done with the fruit wines.

e-wine

 

[Midwest Vintner]

we just pulp fermented apple and used a very thin metal strainer. worked great. thank goodness my dad is a chef, as we had this already. i would go buy one if i didn't have one already.

so, to all, if you don't have a fine strainer, you migh want to consider one as it actually works for many wines!

 

[PricklyPear]

Troy - the batch is about 65 Gallons.

I usually use a metal strainer too. I'll use it to get whatever I can out of the wine and let the rest complete fermentation in the secondary. The regular process, only in a larger scale .

Thanks.

 

[arcticsid]

I wonder what could be used as a fermenting bag to handle that amount of fruit?

 

[e-wine]

So far, I've used recycled bottles for my wine with some contributions from friends. I did the math and, although I think I could strain 65 gallons (eventually) I don't know where I would get 300+ empty bottles to package it out (although it may be fun trying to empty that many). Please keep us up to date and don't spare the details. And if you have pictures, please share.

e-wine