Bottle aging vs bulk aging

[Bmd2k1]

As few as possible. Looking at my Meritage blend, so far I've done 3 and expect 2 more:

1. Oct - pressing (if it was juice this would be a racking)
2. Nov - 4 weeks later off the gross lees, wine into barrel
3. Feb - 3 months later off fine lees.
4. Aug - pre-bottling, getting wine of any sediment and removing oak cubes (barrel is neutral)
5. Nov - bottle when when the 2021 blend is ready for barrel

If making kits and/or using fining agents, there may be an additional racking. In other circumstances I've done more rackings, but everything I've read in the last few years says to rack as seldom as feasible.

One thing I did in Feb was to rack all topup containers, checked that all were good, then homogenized the entire batch. This way each topup is identical to what's in the barrel, keeps the wine consistent for quality control (e.g., tasting) purposes. At bottling time I'll add all topup containers to the main batch, although that will be at most 2 additional gallons.

I do this for blends, which is the 2020 wine, the planned 2021 wine, and all 2nd run wines.

Note: I'm gently stirring the barrel at topup time, as that provides an accurate picture of what the cubes are doing. I add SO2 at 3 month intervals.

Thanks for great info!

When you rack pre bottling...do you let it sit for any length of time before the bottling process?

Cheers!

 

[winemaker81]

When you rack pre bottling...do you let it sit for any length of time before the bottling process?

I'm happy to help!

The final process depends on sediment. If there is no sediment, I may bottle directly from the carboy without racking first. Note that I remove a bottle's worth from the carboy, add 1/4 tsp K-meta, stir to distribute, then add the reserved wine back in. Then bottle.

This assumes no backsweetening (which I rarely do). If there is backsweetening, rack, stabilize, sweeten to taste, and bottle.

Sediment is the primary driver -- if the wine isn't clear before bottling, it's gonna drop sediment in the bottle. If there is any significant sediment, rack and let it set another month.

If there is just a very fine dusting in the bottom of the carboy? Prior to racking I put a wedge under one edge of the carboy to tilt it. During racking, I hold the cane up from the bottom and near the end, point the cane to the deepest part of the wine. The goal is to get as much clear wine as possible while not disturbing the sediment.

Depending on the amount of sediment and if it's moving as the racking reaches the end, I may stop the racking early and bottle what is racked. Then I complete the racking, and if that wine is muddy at all, it goes in the fridge for a week to clear. IMO I will happily bottle 24 perfectly clear bottles and deal with 1 muddy one. The 25th should clear, but if it doesn't it's just unsightly. It's quite drinkable and works great in cooking.

Another option is if there is any sediment, rack the wine and wait 2 to 4 weeks to see if more drops. However, the above process for handling fine lees works for me.

 

[Handy Turnip]

Depending on the amount of sediment and if it's moving as the racking reaches the end, I may stop the racking early and bottle what is racked. Then I complete the racking, and if that wine is muddy at all, it goes in the fridge for a week to clear. IMO I will happily bottle 24 perfectly clear bottles and deal with 1 muddy one. The 25th should clear, but if it doesn't it's just unsightly. It's quite drinkable and works great in cooking.

Yes completely agree - this is the process I follow. I think the key thing is to play it safe. There's little point spending time and energy clearing your wine, just to disturb the sediment when you come to racking for bottling. I'll stop racking well before I get anywhere near the sediment, and bottle what is racked. And to date I've never sediment in my bottles.

I'll then do a dirty rack of what's left into a big kilner jar, and let it settle over a week. That generally becomes my treat bottle to enjoy once it's cleared!

 

[DizzyIzzy]

Bulk aging will give you more consistency in the batch.

Personally I'm six month minimum pitch to bottle - 1 month for primary, 3 months on oak, do acid/tannin adjustments, then 2 months for powdered tannins to polymerize = 6 months minimum.

I do have a cyser that's been in bulk for about a year because I'm not happy with it yet. About to pull off a couple bottles to do a bench trial of a month or two on the Sur-Lie magic powder from morewine to see if that puts it where I want it.

What does the Sur-Lie magic powder do to the taste of the wine?.............................................DizzyIzzy

 

[winemaker81]

What does the Sur-Lie magic powder do to the taste of the wine?

I assume the powder is essentially dried fine lees, which is dead yeast husks. Aging sur lie adds flavors, aromas, and complexity to a wine. This site describes it better than I can.

https://www.winefrog.com/definition/182/sur-lie

 

[Daytona249]

I just finished 2 Merlot and 2 Cab Sauv 28 day wine kits. Will bulk aging in the carboys improve the wine as they say to bottle at this point ?. I was going to try and add a Bourbon soaked oak chip bag to a couple of carboys , how long would you suggest leaving it?

 

[winemaker81]

Kit wines are designed for beginners to get their wines in the bottle ASAP for quick gratification. This works.

However, bulk aging has advantages, as the wine goes through a lot of changes during the first 6 to 12 months. Keeping the wine in bulk helps ensure the wine ages uniformly. It's also helpful in preventing you from drinking it, which gives the wine time to age.

I've tried various durations -- 4 months total (start to bottle) is a minimum. For reds, 6 to 12 months total.

I suggest you taste the wine at each racking and record your impressions. After a year, read the notes in order and look at how the wines changed over time. It's very instructive.

Regarding oak -- I use 1 to 2 oz for 5 to 6 gallons of wine, and extraction will take 3 to 5 months. My oak stix experiment has produced interesting results, in that the wines change a LOT over time, both ups and downs. While the last formal tasting in early July was a down point, an unofficial tasting the other day was quite good.

 

[Daytona249]

Thanks a lot for the information winemaker81, that was kind of my take on it but just wanted some input.my plan was to bulk age on bourbon soaked oak for at least 2-3 months, while tasting periodically and waiting for the right taste to bottle.
Thanks again

 

[Rembee]

Regarding oak -- I use 1 to 2 oz for 5 to 6 gallons of wine, and extraction will take 3 to 5 months.

If my math is correct, for 1 oz per 5 gallons comes out to 5.6 grams per gallon.
Are you using cubes for your oaking @winemaker81?

 

[winemaker81]

If my math is correct, for 1 oz per 5 gallons comes out to 5.6 grams per gallon.
Are you using cubes for your oaking @winemaker81?

Yeah, 5.6 grams is correct.

I like cubes for cost effectiveness vs. ease of use. Chips are the hardest to use, as the surface area is too variable and it's more of a PITA to get 'em out of the fermenter. Staves and spirals are much easier to use, the surface area is regular, but the price is significantly higher. Cubes are the middle ground, fairly regular in surface area and once used up, they're easier than chips to get out of the wine and don't clog the racking cane.

IMO surface area is critical, as it indicates how much direct contact the wine and wood have.

FYI, my 2019 second run spent 10 months in the a 54 liter (14.25 US gallon) barrel with 6 oz cubes for 5 of those months. At this time the wine is good, but it's got a bit of a harsh oak edge to it. My 2020 first run wines are in the barrels now (both 54 liter), and I'm using 5 oz cubes per barrel. The oak character is a LOT less, less than I'd expect based upon the 2019 results. I believe the difference is the first run wines have a LOT more body, so the oak in the second run comes through more.

Using oak adjuncts is an art, not a science, as there are many factors in play. I'm still making it up as I go.

 

[Rembee]

Your right about the use of oak being an art.
At the end of the day, what it comes down to, (through experimenting) is personal preference right?
For me in my Muscadine and Blueberry wines, what I have found over the years is 4 grams per gallon of oak cubes is perfect for the taste that I'm trying to achieve.
I also agree, that for the cost factor and ease of use, cubes are the way to go IMHO.
I am just now this year experimenting with oak chips in the fermentation only, at a rate of 3 grams per gallon. I'm wanting to see if it improves mouthfeel, color longevity and the complexity of the oak tannins in my Blueberry wine. So I'm experimenting with a 3 gallon batch. It has already been racked off of the gross lees and the chips, which was a PITA and is now bulk settling/aging. Next month will be 3 months, my plans are to rack, add another dose of k meta and 12 grams of oak cubes. Then bulk age for 5 to 6 months.

 

[winemaker81]

I am just now this year experimenting with oak chips in the fermentation only, at a rate of 3 grams per gallon.

Do you have a no fermentation oak blueberry to compare against?

 

[Rembee]

Yes, another 3 gallon batch from this year and a few bottles from last year. It was originally a 6 gallon batch that I spilt into 2 5 gallon fermentation buckets. I spilt it after I got my OG and PH dialed in while it was sitting on the pectic enzyme for 24 hours.

 

[DizzyIzzy]

I assume the powder is essentially dried fine lees, which is dead yeast husks. Aging sur lie adds flavors, aromas, and complexity to a wine. This site describes it better than I can.

https://www.winefrog.com/definition/182/sur-lie

Very interesting article, but begs the question of why, then, do we rack off lees before bottling? Is this Sur-Lie Magic powder created from a process, or is it a different animal altogether? Thanks.........................DizzyIzzy

 

[Rembee]

Because the lees that settle out from our fermentation's has fruit pulp and particles in it.
The Sur Lie is just yeast husk.

 

[DizzyIzzy]

Because the lees that settle out from our fermentation's has fruit pulp and particles in it.
The Sur Lie is just yeast husk.

Because the lees that settle out from our fermentation's has fruit pulp and particles in it.
The Sur Lie is just yeast husk.

Thankyou for the feedback. I will definitely try the Sur-Lie next time I make a white.....................................DizzyIzzy

 

[winemaker81]

@DizzyIzzy, adding onto @Rembee's comment:

Gross lees drops right after fermentation ends, mostly grape (fruit) solids. This will decompose and can cause off flavors, and should be removed within weeks.

Fine lees drops later, which is mostly yeast husks. This has no significant effect on reds, as the flavors imparted are gentle and reds are heavy enough that the sur lies flavor are not noticed. In whites, the sur lies flavors are generally positive.

Taking your question literally, we rack off the fine lees at bottling so we don't have sludge in the bottle.

 

[Daytona249]

My intention was to use bourbon soaked chips in a mesh bag

 

[winemaker81]

My intention was to use bourbon soaked chips in a mesh bag

Getting mesh bags into and out of a carboy is more difficult than you may realize.

 

[Sailor323]

My intention was to use bourbon soaked chips in a mesh bag

II don't understand why you would use bourbon soaked chips. Seems to me that would impart a bourbon flavor to the wine.