Bottle drying

[winemaker81]

Well I put 24 bottles at a time in my crab boiling pot and boil them between uses for a hour then let them sit till cool enough to handle with a chemical glove. I have been draining the water and going straight to Star-san rinse before placing on a bottle tree to drain. I use the bottles the next day bottling wine. Should I be doing something else?

If your bottles are clean, there is no reason to boil them.

 

[Garagista]

Well I put 24 bottles at a time in my crab boiling pot and boil them between uses for a hour then let them sit till cool enough to handle with a chemical glove. I have been draining the water and going straight to Star-san rinse before placing on a bottle tree to drain. I use the bottles the next day bottling wine. Should I be doing something else?

On a serious note, this sounds fine to me but I think I do less work to get what is the same result.

I soak the bottles in hot (homemade) PBW for 30 minutes, rinse well and hang on bottle-tree like racks. I ignore them until they are dry then they go back into their boxes upside down. On bottling day, I rinse the inside of the bottles with a couple of squirts of star-san using the Vinator. I put them back onto the bottle-tree thingy to drain as I get the bottling contraption ready.

 

[ChuckD]

Way more work than necessary. I de-label in a hot oxyclean soak then rinse and dry. Before use it’s a quick rinse with starsan. I’ve read commercial wineries fill bottles straight from the box with no pre-rinse.

Wine is a hostile environment for spoilage organisms. No need to make additional work for yourself.

 

[Ohio Bob]

I use the bottles the next day bottling wine. Should I be doing something else?

I was taught to only sanitize immediately before using the bottles. The theory is bacteria can get on the surface and potentially be a problem when you eventually use the bottles.

Do others use their own protocol and it works for them? Yes. Did the Challenger shuttle fly in cold weather several times before eventually exploding? Yes. Deviating from best practice is a matter of accepting risk.

 

[Garagista]

I was taught to only sanitize immediately before using the bottles. The theory is bacteria can get on the surface and potentially be a problem when you eventually use the bottles.

Do others use their own protocol and it works for them? Yes. Did the Challenger shuttle fly in cold weather several times before eventually exploding? Yes. Deviating from best practice is a matter of accepting risk.

I sanitize right before bottling as this is the final quality control step in my process. The scientist in me says that if too long a period of time orrcurs between steps, the probability of contamination increases. Is the risk de-minimus? Probably. Why risk it tho.

 

[Rojoguio]

If your bottles are clean, there is no reason to boil them.

My shop where I store them is not. It's a Boat - Welding - Fabrication - Mechanic shop. I don't seal the box tops after loading with bottles. If you're saying another Star-san rince is good that would certainly simplify the process. They are stored in the air conditioned side but the humidity does get high in there at times.

 

[Rojoguio]

I stay busy motoring around here so the bottle processing to remove the labels and boil out the insides of raw bottles doesn't take much effort. I was getting several hundred bottles a year from friends. They left their bottles outside till a case was full. I was getting a lot of gross stuff out of the bottles on the first boiling & label removing. A lot of the labels just fall off leaving no glue on the glass so I don't mind boiling them. If I don't need to boil them a second time that's great. My reuse bottles gets washed as soon as emptied, turned upside down overnight, turned upright to dry, then stored where the other bottles are. I don't use labels but color code the bottle necks with different color bottle seals so I don't have labels to deal with after the first time.

 

[winemaker81]

My shop where I store them is not. It's a Boat - Welding - Fabrication - Mechanic shop. I don't seal the box tops after loading with bottles. If you're saying another Star-san rince is good that would certainly simplify the process. They are stored in the air conditioned side but the humidity does get high in there at times.

I store my bottles, mouth down, in clean cases. No need to "seal" the cases - a strip of masking tape to hold the top closed may be sufficient.

If you have any concerns about the cleanliness of the bottles, but all means rinse them.

 

[Rice_Guy]

If your bottles are clean, there is no reason to boil them.

* commercial canned foods have enough heat treatment to kill nine log cycles of spore forming bacteria. Plain cold water washing removes five log cycles of contamination and adding soap to a cleaning solution increases this to six log cycles of bacterial reduction. Non spore forming organisms like E. coli are easy to kill ex # let them sit wet for three weeks at room temperature # heat to 140F for 30 minutes # heat to 160F for a minute , (wet heat is more effective than dry oven heat) ,,,, your bottles are pretty close to what industry (FDA rules) called sterile just by using soap water
* wine is a preservative system, I don’t worry about food poisoning organisms above 5% ABV and pH under 4. I tend to have severe enough conditions to kill most wild lactic fermentaion pH 3.3 and 11% ABV and no oxygen in the headspace. Your main risk is oxygen consuming organisms as Acetobacter (make vinegar which is edible) or molds (make yuck flavors / make snot like slime / make cute colored fuzzy colonies). From a health point of view, keep the air out and don’t worry.
* there is probably more contamination on any natural cork than on the bottle or via the wine. Curious, do you boil your corks? Commercial practice is to dump a case in the hopper without any treatment. I use synthetics (Nomacork)
* A lot of cleaning is cosmetic to remove floating material , , , , on the positive, boiling might make it easier to clean mold gunk, likewise soaking with PBW or one step would make it easier to clean. If the bottle doesn’t look clean I don’t use it. This is mainly because I like pretty low turbidity beverages.
* in the micro lab sterile bottles and tools are stored for years in aluminum foil. In the micro lab we buy sterile plates and they remain sterile as long as a cover is over the plate to prevent dust from falling in. ,,, I store bottles mouth down
* this is so far from what traditional alcohol beverages look like, or modern jail house hooch.

Industry runs tests as canned food will be incubated at 30C to see if anything (spore formers like clostridium) will grow. What organism has been creating your historical problem?

 

[Rojoguio]

* there is probably more contamination on any natural cork than on the bottle or via the wine. Curious, do you boil your corks? Commercial practice is to dump a case in the hopper without any treatment. I use synthetics (Nomacork)

I soak the corks in Star-san for a bit turning them with a spoon I leave in the bowl till bottling is done. Since they float turning them is the only way I keep them wet. With the floor corker I spray the iris too before bottling. Since Star-san marred our composite counter top finish with spotting I'm cautious to keep the floor corker iris area clean after each use.

 

[Sailor323]

Well I put 24 bottles at a time in my crab boiling pot and boil them between uses for a hour then let them sit till cool enough to handle with a chemical glove. I have been draining the water and going straight to Star-san rinse before placing on a bottle tree to drain. I use the bottles the next day bottling wine. Should I be doing something else?

I would do something else, I would just rinse out the bottles with hot water, clean them if necessary and sanitize with either Star-san or meta solution. That whole boiling thing is needless and a waste of time.

 

[Garagista]

I would do something else, I would just rinse out the bottles with hot water, clean them if necessary and sanitize with either Star-san or meta solution. That whole boiling thing is needless and a waste of time.

I would tend to strongly agree but there is a small advantage to boiling. The adhesive on the labels will soften and will make it easier to remove them. On the other hand, I don’t like the idea of having label adhesive floating around inside my bottles. It’s just me being me.

 

[Garagista]

* commercial canned foods have enough heat treatment to kill nine log cycles of spore forming bacteria. Plain cold water washing removes five log cycles of contamination and adding soap to a cleaning solution increases this to six log cycles of bacterial reduction. Non spore forming organisms like E. coli are easy to kill ex # let them sit wet for three weeks at room temperature # heat to 140F for 30 minutes # heat to 160F for a minute , (wet heat is more effective than dry oven heat) ,,,, your bottles are pretty close to what industry (FDA rules) called sterile just by using soap water
* wine is a preservative system, I don’t worry about food poisoning organisms above 5% ABV and pH under 4. I tend to have severe enough conditions to kill most wild lactic fermentaion pH 3.3 and 11% ABV and no oxygen in the headspace. Your main risk is oxygen consuming organisms as Acetobacter (make vinegar which is edible) or molds (make yuck flavors / make snot like slime / make cute colored fuzzy colonies). From a health point of view, keep the air out and don’t worry.
* there is probably more contamination on any natural cork than on the bottle or via the wine. Curious, do you boil your corks? Commercial practice is to dump a case in the hopper without any treatment. I use synthetics (Nomacork)
* A lot of cleaning is cosmetic to remove floating material , , , , on the positive, boiling might make it easier to clean mold gunk, likewise soaking with PBW or one step would make it easier to clean. If the bottle doesn’t look clean I don’t use it. This is mainly because I like pretty low turbidity beverages.
* in the micro lab sterile bottles and tools are stored for years in aluminum foil. In the micro lab we buy sterile plates and they remain sterile as long as a cover is over the plate to prevent dust from falling in. ,,, I store bottles mouth down
* this is so far from what traditional alcohol beverages look like, or modern jail house hooch.

Industry runs tests as canned food will be incubated at 30C to see if anything (spore formers like clostridium) will grow. What organism has been creating your historical problem?

This is very helpful, thx. The idea of labware staying sterile for long periods of time (covered in aluminum foil) is especially interesting.

 

[Rice_Guy]

I would tend to strongly agree but there is a small advantage to boiling. The adhesive on the labels will soften and will make it easier to remove them. . . . It’s just me being me.

Yes
Labels with solvent based~Water insoluble adhesive; the current method is to put a glug of hot coffee in the bottle > slosh it > grab a corner of the label and pull it off > dump the coffee into the morning hot chocolate > ~Pinot mocha
. . . It’s just me doing what Dad did

 

[mainshipfred]

On occasion I help or am present at commercial bottling operations. Of course they use new bottles but I have never seen them do anything to prepare the new bottles, except for a shot of nitrogen but that's a different purpose. I only reuse my own bottles and they are rinsed thoroughly once they are empty. When I get around to de-labeling them they are soaked in hot tap water with Oxiclean, de-labeled, rinsed and placed top down in boxes. I call them clean, treat them as new, and do nothing else is done prior to bottling.

I'm not at all opposed to cleanliness though I feel as home winemakers we go overboard. If you ever get the opportunity to help with a commercial production you should, it's an eye opening experience. All the larger equipment like crusher, destemmers, bladder presses, t-bin tanks, punch down tools, etc. are simply rinsed with water. Covers are placed on the fermenting vessels in an attempt to stop the fruit flies but it's not perfect. The only thing I do see them sanitizing are the pumps and hoses.

Considering they have a lot more to lose with larger quantities you would think if it was necessary they would go to further extremes.

 

[Rojoguio]

I would tend to strongly agree but there is a small advantage to boiling. The adhesive on the labels will soften and will make it easier to remove them. On the other hand, I don’t like the idea of having label adhesive floating around inside my bottles. It’s just me being me.

The Adhesive never floats into the bottles. Don't know why it doesn't. I pull the bottles shaking them upside down vigorously as the water comes out. After I turn the bottom up to the sunlight and look inside for any remaining solid. Maybe 1 in 100 has something inside after the boiling. Any remaining label is removed by peeling off, if it won't peel I have razor blades and using the same technique to remove stickers on a windshield I remove the stubborn label. Now the bottles that have remaining solids are pitched because I maintain more bottles than I need. 10 cases or better, where I get my bottles is a endless supply. The bottles are still warm when the Star-san hits them.

 

[Garagista]

Yes
Labels with solvent based~Water insoluble adhesive; the current method is to put a glug of hot coffee in the bottle > slosh it > grab a corner of the label and pull it off > dump the coffee into the morning hot chocolate > ~Pinot mocha
. . . It’s just me doing what Dad did

Very cool method your Dad has there but I don’t think I can drink 12 hot chocolates w/coffee every time I do a case!

 

[winemaker81]

Very cool method your Dad has there but I don’t think I can drink 12 hot chocolates w/coffee every time I do a case!

You need to be more confident in your abilities!