Champlain Valley - Grapemans' vineyard - Planting to small winery
- Thread starter grapeman
- Start date
Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:
tfries
Member
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2006
- Messages
- 54
- Reaction score
- 6
When the nets are removed, you go in the reverse direction. The boom lifts the netting up off of the vines. The person standing on the platform stuffs the netting back into the bag. It is easier to remove than apply. My wife and I were able to do ours by ourselves last season with her stuffing and me driving.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,213
Thanks tfries, that is right. I just got back from double markets today and saw this. Saves time typing. The net is laid across the alleys and is connected. Removal is just what he said and the net is just stuffed back in the bag, which even has a carrying handle.
I used to do it essentially the same way applying it with a simple boom stick made of PVC pipe with a T glued on the end. The net was lifted into place and the light pole still got heavy after hours of fighting the net on.
We still need to paint it, but wanted to get the net on before the weekend so we used it unpainted.
The nets last about 5 years, but that depends on how long you leave them out in the sun.
I used to do it essentially the same way applying it with a simple boom stick made of PVC pipe with a T glued on the end. The net was lifted into place and the light pole still got heavy after hours of fighting the net on.
We still need to paint it, but wanted to get the net on before the weekend so we used it unpainted.
The nets last about 5 years, but that depends on how long you leave them out in the sun.
And they don't become a huge tangled mess stuffing them into that bag? Thats incredible!
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,213
Not at all Mike. This is unlike the rigid mesh ones you got free which tangle at the drop of a hat and are very hard on your cuticles. This stuff is great, but not quite as durable. It seems to hold birds out better.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,213
Checked some of the grapes today in my really dry one acre vineyard. The St Pepin is getting golden and is running 17 brix with a great flavor. I will probably be picking in a couple weeks. The Brianna and Adalmiina are very tasty but only around 15 brix.
I checked the Frontenac just for the fun of it and got a reading of 17 brix. Man has it been progressing quickly!
I checked the Frontenac just for the fun of it and got a reading of 17 brix. Man has it been progressing quickly!
![[Upgraded] 9Pcs Tree Root Growing Box with Drain Holes, Half Transparent Plant Rooting Propagation Ball & Metal Core Twist Ties, for Fast Propagation Plants (Size M)](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/514MWQxtWOL._SL500_.jpg)
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,213
The results of the 2012 International Cold Climate Wine Competition are in after the August 16 judging in Minnesota. Two of my wines I enter won medals this year, the first I have entered in this competition. My Petite Amie won a Silver medal in the Dry White Single Varietal and Blends category - mine was 100% Petite Amie. The grape was bred by David McGregor and is a very floral Muscat type white grape. This one was totally dry. I also make one I call Sweet Little Friend mad of the Petite Amie grape. Not much of this grape is grown yet and this is last years harvest from my training systems trial of three year old vines. Not bad for three year old vines.
The other medal was a bronze medal won for the St. Pepin wine made from the three year old St Pepin grapes in the training systems trial also. Everybody still think young vines can't be used to make a nice wine? The grapes are already exhibiting tremendous flavors this year even though the brix is still way shy of harvest.
I entered these wines in the competition this year not expecting a lot, knowing they were from these very young vines. I was thrilled that they did fairly well for their age. What will these vines be capable of in the future? All from vines that are re-defining yield expectations for cold climate grapes.
The other medal was a bronze medal won for the St. Pepin wine made from the three year old St Pepin grapes in the training systems trial also. Everybody still think young vines can't be used to make a nice wine? The grapes are already exhibiting tremendous flavors this year even though the brix is still way shy of harvest.
I entered these wines in the competition this year not expecting a lot, knowing they were from these very young vines. I was thrilled that they did fairly well for their age. What will these vines be capable of in the future? All from vines that are re-defining yield expectations for cold climate grapes.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,213
I shot some pictures in the vineyard yesterday as we picked in the Marquette grapes. You can check more out in the Photo Album section at the Home page here.
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/photo/grapes-&-fruit/
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/photo/grapes-&-fruit/
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,213
See the previous page for pictures of the Marquette picked this year from the trial.
When I get the chance I will post some of the results out of the training system trial this year. For the Marquette, it looks like the Vertical Shoot Positioned Marquette yielded a bit over 10 pounds per vine. The Scott-Henry averaged a bit over 15 pounds per vine. The Top Wire Cordon yielded an average of a bit over 20 pounds per vine. The Modified GDC I developed for the trial yielded around 35 pounds per vine. (that is around 12 tons of grapes per acre folks!) These are all Marquette in rows side by side with the same spacing. These are all 4 year old vines!
I also have collected chemistry results several times now for the vines in the trial - 432 vines times (in groups of 9) 4 times with 3-4 tests per vine each time for a total of over 1200 test readings. Interestingly and surprisingly, the Scott-Henry had the worst acid readings consistently over all the varieties. Look for more results over the next couple months.
When I get the chance I will post some of the results out of the training system trial this year. For the Marquette, it looks like the Vertical Shoot Positioned Marquette yielded a bit over 10 pounds per vine. The Scott-Henry averaged a bit over 15 pounds per vine. The Top Wire Cordon yielded an average of a bit over 20 pounds per vine. The Modified GDC I developed for the trial yielded around 35 pounds per vine. (that is around 12 tons of grapes per acre folks!) These are all Marquette in rows side by side with the same spacing. These are all 4 year old vines!
I also have collected chemistry results several times now for the vines in the trial - 432 vines times (in groups of 9) 4 times with 3-4 tests per vine each time for a total of over 1200 test readings. Interestingly and surprisingly, the Scott-Henry had the worst acid readings consistently over all the varieties. Look for more results over the next couple months.
Very interesting results Rich! Thanks for posting the pics. The clusters look nice as usual. Can't wait to see some more results! Hope the new press is working out well for you. 
Looking forward to your results. The amount of grapes on your mod gdc is amazing. Most around here would say that is seriously over cropped. I'm curious about the chemistry between 35 pounds (gdc) and 10 pounds (vsp). I would think you would see more stress on the vines cropping them so much. Perhaps its too early but have you noticed any issues overwintering with your gdc/high cropped vines?
I need to pick your brains at some point about what varieties you thing would benefit from your gdc.
I need to pick your brains at some point about what varieties you thing would benefit from your gdc.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,213
Greg, everybody would say that the Mod GDC is overcropped, except the Marquette grapes (and St. Pepin and others). These are hybrid grapes and they don't know they should follow human and vinifera rules. They want to grow and multiply, so they do.
Interestingly the chemistry is similar across all the training systems. The TWC system actually has about the highest brix, followed by the VSP, them Mod GDC and then the Scott Henry. The Mod GDC is best for the TA and Scott Henry the worst. Mod GDC requires the least amount of labor, then the TWC, then Scott Henry and the most labor the VSP. So you work the most to get the least amount of grapes with very similar grape chemistry. Hmmmmmmmmm. Sound like that is THE way to go(VSP)? Not me.
Over wintering problems with the Marquette on GDC? We have noticed here that Marquette is like St. Pepin. You always get at least a few buds closest to the cordons remain intact over the winter. Those become the spurs, so you get a properly pruned vine when done. This spring when we pruned, we got the highest amount of pruned one year old wood from the Mod GDC indicating that the vine produced plenty of wood for growth and ripening a crop.
As a bit of explanation for how it can ripen a crop about as well as VSP, it has a higher total amount of shoots on the vine than the TWC or VSP because of the second fruiting wire. This allows a higher number of clusters per vine (2 clusters per shoot) which keeps the shoot length in check- around 4-5 feet. Since they don't get hedged, you retain a full set of leaves on that shoot which creates sugars and ripens the crop. With TWC and especially VSP, the shoots become too long and must be skirted or hedged. That reduces the leaves per shoot and lessens the amount of sugars produced. As far as acids, it has been suggested that grape vines produce X amount of acid per vine, therefore by increasing the amount of grapes you are reducing the amount of total acid per cluster. The results so far seem to bear this out.
Remember humans once believed that the solar system revolved around the Earth and that Earth was flat. These are not the results I was expecting when I planted the trial vineyard, but I am keeping an open mind about the results. More studies need to be done. Watch for more work being done with the Northern Grapes Project as part of a multi-million dollar multi-state grant done at the universities.
Interestingly the chemistry is similar across all the training systems. The TWC system actually has about the highest brix, followed by the VSP, them Mod GDC and then the Scott Henry. The Mod GDC is best for the TA and Scott Henry the worst. Mod GDC requires the least amount of labor, then the TWC, then Scott Henry and the most labor the VSP. So you work the most to get the least amount of grapes with very similar grape chemistry. Hmmmmmmmmm. Sound like that is THE way to go(VSP)? Not me.
Over wintering problems with the Marquette on GDC? We have noticed here that Marquette is like St. Pepin. You always get at least a few buds closest to the cordons remain intact over the winter. Those become the spurs, so you get a properly pruned vine when done. This spring when we pruned, we got the highest amount of pruned one year old wood from the Mod GDC indicating that the vine produced plenty of wood for growth and ripening a crop.
As a bit of explanation for how it can ripen a crop about as well as VSP, it has a higher total amount of shoots on the vine than the TWC or VSP because of the second fruiting wire. This allows a higher number of clusters per vine (2 clusters per shoot) which keeps the shoot length in check- around 4-5 feet. Since they don't get hedged, you retain a full set of leaves on that shoot which creates sugars and ripens the crop. With TWC and especially VSP, the shoots become too long and must be skirted or hedged. That reduces the leaves per shoot and lessens the amount of sugars produced. As far as acids, it has been suggested that grape vines produce X amount of acid per vine, therefore by increasing the amount of grapes you are reducing the amount of total acid per cluster. The results so far seem to bear this out.
Remember humans once believed that the solar system revolved around the Earth and that Earth was flat. These are not the results I was expecting when I planted the trial vineyard, but I am keeping an open mind about the results. More studies need to be done. Watch for more work being done with the Northern Grapes Project as part of a multi-million dollar multi-state grant done at the universities.
Your information is invaluable! Thank you!!!
I have been warned by other growers in my area that overcropping could weaken the vines and I would see winter kill. Hence my question. Appreciate your insight.
I have two fields - one has way over the top nitrogen and the other is a little low on nitrogen. For vigorous hybrid grapes like Marquette, I was thinking with the high fertility soil a 2 wire, 4 cordon system like your mod-GDC would help tame them. Would it be wise to stick with a 2 cordon system on the lower fertility soil?
I'll PM you with some more questions about my vineyard plan.
Heh! I'm definitely not a flat earther and since I haven't yet grown grapes, my mind is open to considering all the data. I toured a number of vineyards in eastern ND and western MN last weekend. Most folks use VSP. I've been trying to convince people that there are other systems to try.
I saw a couple vineyards where they were growing the fruit very close to the ground with a fruiting wire about 30 inches. They told me that they always had winter kill above the snow line and had to lower their grapes. Haven't seen that in ND though. Another vineyard was switching from TWC to VSP I believe because of winter and frost issues.
I have been warned by other growers in my area that overcropping could weaken the vines and I would see winter kill. Hence my question. Appreciate your insight.
I have two fields - one has way over the top nitrogen and the other is a little low on nitrogen. For vigorous hybrid grapes like Marquette, I was thinking with the high fertility soil a 2 wire, 4 cordon system like your mod-GDC would help tame them. Would it be wise to stick with a 2 cordon system on the lower fertility soil?
I'll PM you with some more questions about my vineyard plan.
Heh! I'm definitely not a flat earther and since I haven't yet grown grapes, my mind is open to considering all the data. I toured a number of vineyards in eastern ND and western MN last weekend. Most folks use VSP. I've been trying to convince people that there are other systems to try.
I saw a couple vineyards where they were growing the fruit very close to the ground with a fruiting wire about 30 inches. They told me that they always had winter kill above the snow line and had to lower their grapes. Haven't seen that in ND though. Another vineyard was switching from TWC to VSP I believe because of winter and frost issues.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,213
We are getting there with harvest and now only have Frontenac and Catawba to pick for the year.
Here are a couple pics I posted in the Photos section of the board.
They are pictures taken of Chardonel that we picked today. Man were they beautiful! Great numbers and huge clusters.
Not a large crop because I have not expanded their numbers yet, but they make some of the best wine I make and it sells out within weeks of introduction every year!
Here are a couple pics I posted in the Photos section of the board.
They are pictures taken of Chardonel that we picked today. Man were they beautiful! Great numbers and huge clusters.
Not a large crop because I have not expanded their numbers yet, but they make some of the best wine I make and it sells out within weeks of introduction every year!
Wow, beautiful wine porn! 
