Champlain Valley - Grapemans' vineyard - Planting to small winery

[bilbo-in-maine]

OK Richard, interest is piqued. A lake in the background (or very foggy valley) somewhere in NY... Show the rest of the photos now. Thanks.

 

[grapeman]

The previous picture is blurry. I should have gotten another one. The sun was apparently too bright. It is on Willsboro Point on Lake Champlain. The other side is Vermont in the background. What I was trying to show is how you keep deer out of a vineyard. Deer fencing 8 feet tall. Here are some pictures of a cold hardy trial going on at the Willsboro Research Farm conducted by a bunch of cooperating parties from Cornell, University of Minnesota, University of Vermont and others. There is no real data yet, since the vines were planted last year and we experienced the mildest winter in years. Here are some pictures of some of the varieties. I filled the digital camera card before I got all of them. They haven't been trained to any system yet, just tied up in a fan shape for now. The vines were so vigorous, they left some grapes on some of them this year. These were varieties deemed hardy enough to probably do well here in an extreme climate.


Frontenac Gris

GR-7 from Cornell

LaCrescent

LaCrosse

Louise Swensen

Marechal Foch

Marquette(New from UM)

Ravat

Sabrevois

St. Pepin

St. Croix

Vignoles

Trellis System

I'm no photographer, but hopefully these will give you at least a glimpse of some varieties you haven't seen before. There were a number of other varieties I didn't have room for on the card and some that are still only numbered varieties. Actually Marquette is listed there as it's number. Edited by: appleman

 

[NorthernWinos]

Great photos and nice to see such vigorous plants....

Have heard of some of those varieties, some are rated as Zone 4, so not for this area....tho I do have some Zone 4 grapes that have survived 2 winters... I grow them in a fan shape and on a panel, then lay them down in the winter....Keeping them growing in a fan shape keeps young flexible vines, but I think production will suffer.....

Such fun trying to grow new plants...just a challenge...worth a try...

Going to try a few more varieties and some will be those you listed....Thanks!!!

Edited by: Northern Winos

 

[OilnH2O]

Very interesting since we seem to be in zone 5A -- I'm assuming that's the "warm side of 5" that you mention. I'm curious if you think these are modified by "lake affect" ?? A local winery is doing good with swenson, marechal foch... and maybe lacrosse.


Dave
Dave

 

[grapeman]

The site was chosen partially for it's location, partially because that was an available site(part of the Cornell research facilities). It has to feel some lake effects, being about 500 feet from the sixth largest fresh water lake in the country and has open space on all sides and is atop about 5-25% slopes. The Minnesota varieties are generally more cold tolerant than the Cornell varieties, although they are all good down to about -10-15F or lower.

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

Wow, all of my 5 varieties except Frontenac is represented there, and Marquette, which I have an order in for next spring too. It was really nice to see a photo of it, and it appeared to have the most fruit.

So, what's the deal with the trellising but no real training? It would be very useful to know how they, the experts, recommend training each variety. I'm still looking into how my 5 should best be trained and pruned.

Thanks for going to visit the site and posting the shots!

 

[grapeman]

Bill,
Frontenac is planted there and is doing as well as any of the others. I may have just overlooked the picture. I know they did have some bunches of grapes on them. I will check in the morning.


As far as training, they just haven't had enough labor to do it yet. Most labor is provided by volunteers. They have just let the vines grow to get well established and will begin training with the next season. This trial is for cold hardiness, not types of training. They are looking to learn more in the future from the planting, such as winemaking from each variety. As they begin bearing more, they are looking at bringing these varieties to Cornell for wine evaluation, since there are a number of varieties here not found at Geneva(NY).

 

[grapeman]

Bill,
Here are a couple pictures of Frontenac. I guess I hadn't put them in because they were closer up than others, not showing the plant overall. They did have a lot of grapes on them, and in the one picture you can even see where they had cut of at least one bunch. These plants do show some spotting on them, but were generally healthy.


I also put in one of plain old Niagara, which is hit or miss around here. Some years I get grapes, some years not many, but I have some that are 28 years old so they must at least survive around here. The pictures were taken at the site and generally they were the greenest and had the biggest grapes.


Frontenac

Frontenac

Niagara

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

Richard - Very good of you to go back for more shots! I'll bet you enjoy the opportunity, actually. Do you know if the researchers plan to publish this work at some point? Also, do you happen to know what the soil is like at the site? I think you said these were all 2 year old vines, and some had set so many clusters already!

 

[grapeman]

Bill,
I didn't need to go back to the site, I just hadn't put those pictures in before because they didn't show most of the vine like the others. We were told that the organization shares data as available, but they don't expect to have any available information for a while. I don't have the soil type, but it seems to be a gravelly soil. We were told the vines were planted in the black mulch. Before they got the deer fencing upthe deer punched all kinds of holes in the plastic. When they picked stones before planting the cover crop they put them on the holes. You can see some of them in the pictures.


The vines were all planted May 2005 from whatever the suppliers could get them. They noted the variability in vigor is mostly from the quality of vines planted. Ones that were from tissue culture were smaller than the ones from larger bareroot vines. Plant quality if you want a quick start. They laid mulch like I said. 3 tons of compost applied the fall before planting and incorporated. There is drip irrigation available, but only applied once the year of establishment. Now that the vines are well established, the research results can start coming in. I'm going to keep an eye on this project, it's only about 30 miles away.

 

[PolishWineP]

This is some great information and pictures! Hope for those of us up near the border! Need something hardy to -35F.

 

[grapeman]

PWP,
For reds- Frontenac, Frontenac, Frontenac. Hardy to -35 deg. or so.
For White- LaCrescent or Frontenac Gris(makes a blush).

 

[grapeman]

Here's an update on the progress of the vines about a month later again(a little more now-didn't have time sooner). First an update on the little rooted cuttings, they have put on about 12-15 inches of growth this year so should be good to plant next year. Some varieties I set out from rooted cuttings did well and are up to 6 feet tall, while some varieties like Frontenac were slow to set roots and are bushy and about 2 feet tall.

Sunflower gone wild- this came up from a bird dropping the seed.

Buffalo grapes- ones on right- most have 3 or four cordons a few feet long.

Catawba

Leon Millot from my rooted cuttings- up to 6 feet tall!

La Crosse on left St. Pepin on right

Niagara grapes

And finally some Gala Apples

Here's hoping you all have a nice warm late fall!

Edited by: appleman

 

[NorthernWinos]

WOW!!! Everything looks so good and well cared for....going have to change your name to 'grapeman'..

Think you must be much warmer than us to grow those varieties...I am envyous about that...

We are so resricted here to the very hardy varieties....but you got to try to grow with what survives....I am just test ploting a few vines of a few varieties to see what works best, then go from there.
You are going to have acres of grapes when you get all your cuttings set out....a winery in your future???
Your apples look good, and you said your deer are eating well....think you need some dogs running at large...

 

[grapeman]

The deer are indded eating well- don't plan on picking apples below 4-5 feet from ground. I have seen them get the apples off by shaking the branches even. I will have to set out a game camera to see when they feed. I have a couple really big set of tracks out here- must be at least a couple bucks eating. Normally I just havew does and fawns until breeding season.


I am pushing things a little here with the Catawba and Buffalo, although my Uncle has grown both sucessfully here in the past. I also have a couple each of Reliance, Canadice, Glenora and Marquis - all seedless. Not sure how they will fare, but the ones that grow I will propagate further. I am protected here from the severe cold by the trees and they help deposit the snow and keep it here for ground cover where out in the more open fields it all blows away. Normally we get about 3-4 feet of snow cover at any one time. Several years ago we got six feet of snow piled up in March.


Time will tell how all these vines do, but I'm having a blast with all of them and hoping I can make some "Fine Vine Wines" from them someday.

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

Very pretty scene! I'm continually amazed at the look of your soil there Richard. Do you cultivate frequently with a tractor? And not a single weed under the vines. All in all, how many vines of various varieties do you or will you have? Great job

 

[grapeman]

Bill,
I actually saw frost on the ground this morning- on the way to a building site not far from Lake Placid and Whiteface Mountain. The builder said it was down to 26 deg near his house. Fall is a comin'. As far as the vineyard being weed-free- Yes I do use my tractor with a five foot disc harrow between the rows(it actually covers six feet). That leaves me with a narrow two to three foot strip to hoe. I have hoed and harrowed I believe six times so far this year. If I do it when the weeds are less than three inches high, it takes me about six to eight hours for all of them. I either do a row or two a night or half each day over the weekend. I sit on my butt most of the time anymore doing thehouse planson the computer, so it gives me much needed exercise as I get older.


You ask about how many vines I have of each-

Alden- 12 vines (Table/Wine)
Canadice- 2 vines(Table-seedless)
Catawba- 27 vines(Juice/Wine/Table)
Chardonnel-40 vines(Wine)
Frontenac- 125 vines(Wine)
Glenora- 2 vines(Table-seedless)
LaCrosse-25 vines(Wine)
Leon Millot- 50 vines(Wine)
Marquis- 2 vines (Table-seedless)
Reliance- 2 vines(Table-seedless)
Pepin- 20 vines(Wine)
Total- 378


Oh yeah, I forgot about 3 Buffalo that self rooted when I tipped some ends of vines and dropped them on the ground. Shows you how wet it was most of the summer when they will root on top of the ground by themselves from tissue culture!

Time will tell how many of these varieties do well around here and how many I end up with. I'm having fun working with the vines- I miss that about full-time gardening, but my half-century plus body feels it's agesome days. If I run out of ground at my place, I'm pretty sure my brother would let me plant a few thousand on his farm if I wanted.

 

[OilnH2O]

This is kinda off-topic, but I still read these postingseven thoughILOST myWHOLE VINYARD as you know...

BUTin deference to your comments about the deer we pulled out some venison steaks (muley) and put a herbrub on them -- even added some of Scott's 'mojo' to it -- and they were great!Accompanied by a nice merlot, too!

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

Richard - With that many vines, you could go the small commercial winery route. What are your plans, if you don't mind my asking? Once all those are producing full crops I should think you will potentially make more wine than the legal limit. Will you sell fruit to a nearby winery?

I'll bet Oiln wouldn't mind taking a few of your many cuttings from what you'll be pruning next winter.

You have an impressive vineyard - it is always a pleasure to see your photos!

 

[NorthernWinos]

Appleman, I am so impressed with your venture, wish you a mild winter and a good growing season next year...in no time you'll be building a winery.
26*F in August is not a good sign...I would say that you are having fall already. Hope your vines were spared the frosty morning...?
You have many apple trees too, what do you do with all those apples??? ....besides feeding the deer??? Do you press them and make wine???

OilnH2O...what happened to your vineyard???

Edited by: Northern Winos