Champlain Valley - Grapemans' vineyard - Planting to small winery

[grapeman]

NW,
It is definitely cool here, but only got down to 49 degrees. The frost was about 35 miles away in the Adirondacks- a world unto itself. I'm clese to the lake, so it stays quite a bit milder. The cold weather there is not unusal. Some years they have frost every month of the year. I don't get a frost for another month to month and a half.


Bill, I hope to make some wine for myself and family and friends, but keep it in the limit. Also have to feed all the wildlife. Future plans-you never know.......
NW- I do press a lot of cider, give some apples away and make a generous amount of apple wine-great for cooking, etc.
OilnH2o lost his vineyard- actually he got some cuttings from a friend, but they were apparently winter killed vines. He tended them most of the summer in pots to root and start a little vineyard. Finally he concluded they were gonners. Check out Missoula Vinyards.Too sad

OilnH2o- if you want a few vines or cuttings in the spring- let me know- I can get you some cuttings or send a few of my surplus baby vines. I would be glad to help you out.Edited by: appleman

 

[OilnH2O]

NW -- sorry, missed your question!


My sad story

is under the "Missoula Vinyard" thread -- we tried some spring cuttings from a friend's vinyard in B.C. and faithfully tended what turned out to be dead sticks for months! Lots of help from Appleman and others but the canes had been hit by late spring frost after bud-break (before I even got them) and little did we know, they were probably dead when we started!


But I LEARNED SO MUCH!

Don't worry -- I'll try again!



Appleman -- I may just take you up on the offer of cuttings -- I think I'm going to do the "preparation" this fall as several of you have recommended -- I have a small spot that I can put in about 6-8 vines in the corner of our yard. I bought the "Northern Winework" book recommended by NW -- a GREAT source of info! At this point, since I still consider my self a 'newbie' (in spite of what the avatar says!) if I could get some vines going for one batch a year, that would be a great start!Edited by: OilnH2O

 

[grapeman]

OilnH2O,
Just decide what type of vines you want and I can send you some cuttings towards spring. Red or White or both. If you want small plants, I've got Frontenac, Buffalo, Chardeonel and Niagara vines in my nursery to overwinter. Most of my vines will need pruning this winter/spring, so I can also send you any of those cuttings- see previous page(I think) for a list of the kinds I have growing. I hope we can get you a little vineyard growing soon.

 

[NorthernWinos]

OilnH2O....
What zone are you in???
Do you get a reliable snow cover for a natural mulch????
Do you get harsh drying winds in the winters????
A few things to consider when you get vines, but you saw that in the Northern Wineworks...I think it is a great book too...


The vineyard I went to yesterday 'captures' snow in the winter...he said last year he put rows of snow fence at various intervals throughout his vineyard to capture the snow for a mulch. He is pretty open there, tho surrounded with trees and has much drifting snow, so the snow fence helped him as we didn't get much snow last winter...
I use a snow fence near my rose garden and it sure protects the marginally hardy roses winter over, also the snow fence keeps our downstairs door from getting drifted in.....
SNOW..yuck!!! A nasty 4 letter word to me...I love spring, summer and fall a bit less....

 

[OilnH2O]

NW -- From what I can figure by looking at the USDA "hardiness maps" it's 5A -- from -15 to -20 and we do have a local winery having good luck with many of the grapes mentioned here -- marechal foch, swenson, etc. We don't have enough snow -- only a few inches at a time on average -- to serve as mulch, but about every 10 winters there is one that makes you realize why you have that 28" tracked snow-blower in the back of the garage -- YOU know -- with the electric start and headlamp for those BRRrrrr wintermornings!

 

[grapeman]

Well I guess I'm not too far behind the Finger Lakes region with ripening of my Concord and Niagara grapes. I see where they were 10.9 brix as of September 11. I tested mine tonight and they sit just shy of 10 brix each. We are expecting sunny weather this weekend and abut 80 degrees. That should develop them pretty well. The rain we have had has swollen the grapes quite a bit and hopefully it hasn't thrown the balance off too much. The berries are averaging over a half inch each- bigger than they normally get here when fully ripe. The cold nights and cloudy weather have slowed them down, which is alright because they have been maturing ahead of usual. Will post some pictures when they are close to picking.


Can't wait for some of the new vines to bear in the future. For now I will have to be content with the grapes I have and as much apple cider/wine as I want to make. Some varieties are really loaded, but most are less than optimal in quality- albeit sweet.

 

[grapeman]

I seem to have made a good find this evening. My brother-in-law called last night and said he had some black grapes growing in a tree and over a bank and I could have the grapes if I wanted. I hustled right up this evening to see what they were figuring they were Concords unteded since he bought the place about 5 years ago. One look at the vine and I knew it wasn't. It looks like it is a cross between a native grape and some unknown tame vine. One taste and I knew I have to make some wine from it. It is both sweet and tart at the same time. It has definite cherry flavor and more than a hint of plum. The bunches that were in the open were large for that type of vine weighing almost a half pound apiece. The juice is very red. It reminds me of a Marechal Foch or Leon Millot, only sweeter with more flavor. It is apparently pretty disease resistant, since it has never been sprayed yet has a huge crop.





I am going to try a test batch or two of wine(I picke 50 pounds tonight and will go back with a ladder later for another). If it turns out as good as I think, I will be volunteering to prune his vine for him. Naturally I will have to cart away the prunings

. A few of them may end up rooting accidentally for trial in the vineyard.

 

[NorthernWinos]

What a great score....Will you run them through your press???How exciting!!! Will be watching this post for photos!!!!

You said they were very dark....and an older vine.....could they be Fredonia??? They say those are blue/black. large clusters, earlier than Concord and can cover an arbor in a year with vines 15-20 feet long.....I tried one and it died one winter...

Hope you get some growing off of the "trimin's"..

Good Luck!!

http://www.aaronscanna-amaryllis.com/bunchgrapes/fredonia.htmlEdited by: Northern Winos

 

[grapeman]

Wino,
I don't believe the vine was planted- unless you count a bird. The placement isn't right. Growing in a tree on a steep bank a ways away from the house. It definitely has a lot going for it though, just the right acid, unbelievable flavors and when I destemmed, cleaned and crushed them I got about 35 pounds. I added water to get 3 gallons going(not much) and the SG was at 1.065 - sugared to 1.085 and added pectic enzyme and nutrient. Just for that authentic crushing feel, I used my bare feet - and yes, they did turn very purple(but it came right off).

 

[NorthernWinos]

Did you really use your feet to press those grapes????Like in a tub????And no pictures....shame on you!!!!

I see people are freezing grapes then using them for wine...I bet the freezing relly breaks them down to mush....wonder if feezing them changes the flavor...????
No flavor like fresh grapes and feet tho....

 

[grapeman]

Here is a picture of the 3 gallon batch of the wine made from the grapes above. It looks and smells great. I went back yesterday and got another 3 gallon batch started.

 

[NorthernWinos]

That looks great....all your wines are looking fabulous....
Did you figure out what variety of grapes they were???? Like you said the vine was probably seeded by a bird roosting in the tree....
We had a huge Cottonwood tree near our house, it uprooted in a bad wind storm in 2001...under it is growing many of the Chokecherry trees we picked fruit from this summer...also noticed a tree with different colored leaves last spring...I flagged it and trimmed out some brush from around it....this spring it bloomed bright red/pink blossoms...it was exactly like the neighbors Flowering Crabapple trees....I call it 'Emma's Tree' as she died a few weeks before this volunteer bloomed.....
So...truely...the best things in life are free....

 

[grapeman]

I haven't figured out what variety it is yet. My brother in law will ask the people they bought the place from if they planted it or not. It seems to be a lot Like Marechal Foch, and a lot of those are grown about 25-30 mile north in Quebec. May have come from there. I will propagate some cuttings next spring so I can control the growh and should be able to tell more then.

 

[Wade E]

That looks like a nice batch going.

 

[grapeman]

I thought some of the others would be interested in this:


reprinted from: CCE Northeast Fruitlet, Vol. 8 No. 10 , September, 2006


On Saturday, September 23, a working field session was held at the Cornell Baker Farm in Willsboro, NY, so that participants could jointly view, taste, and discuss the first grapes of the Willsboro Wine Grape Trial. It was not the intent to crop these vines in 2006 but rather to allow the vines to further establish themselves in preparation for full cropping in 2007. However, we retained enough crop for comparative observation.

Despite the showers, we harvested the equivalent of one complete replication of vines and then retired to a farm porch to taste each and share initial impressions about the grapes. Ten volunteers assisted in the effort, and afterwards, we cleared off all the remaining grapes and divvied-up the bounty among the "help". The listing below provides a brix value for each grape indicating where their sugar levels stood relative to one another at this time. It is anticipated that full cropping will begin in 2007, and so very little fruit will be available for take-home purposes, as much of it - particularly vines of keen interest - will be used for controlled evaluation purposes and hopefully, test wine batches.

Single-Berry Brix Reading of Wine-Grapes in Willsboro Cold-Hardy Wine Grape Trial, September 23, 2006.

Baco Noir 21.2 Frontenac Gris 24.5 Leon Millot 20.0 NY 73.136.17 15.0 Ravat 3415.0


Cayuga White 19.0 GR 7 21.2 Louise Swenson 19.4 NY 76.844.24 18.7 Sabrevois >20.0


Edelweiss<X-TAB> </X-TAB>19.2<X-TAB> </X-TAB>LaCresent<X-TAB> </X-TAB>23.2<X-TAB> </X-TAB>Marechal Foch<X-TAB> </X-TAB>22.6<X-TAB> </X-TAB>Niagara<X-TAB> </X-TAB>17.0<X-TAB> </X-TAB>St Croix<X-TAB> </X-TAB>20.0

ES 6-16-30<X-TAB> </X-TAB>22.5<X-TAB> </X-TAB>LaCrosse<X-TAB> </X-TAB>20.0<X-TAB> </X-TAB>Marquette (MN 1211)<X-TAB> </X-TAB>25.8<X-TAB> </X-TAB>Petiteamie<X-TAB> </X-TAB>19.3<X-TAB> </X-TAB>St Pepin<X-TAB> </X-TAB>18.2

Frontenac<X-TAB> </X-TAB>23.0<X-TAB> </X-TAB>Landot 4511 20.2<X-TAB> </X-TAB>MN 1200<X-TAB> </X-TAB>24.0<X-TAB> </X-TAB>Prarie Star<X-TAB> </X-TAB>22.8<X-TAB> </X-TAB>Vignoles<X-TAB> </X-TAB>20.0


As to "Ravat 34?" it appears we have a misidentified vine that we are attempting to identify. Stay tuned.

This Cornell Extension trial is supported by the growers, and counties of CCE's NE NY Commercial Fruit Program, The NY Farm Viability Institute, the Northern NY Ag Development Program, and other interested parties.

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

Thanks Richard, I'm encouraged to see most of my varieties hitting at least 20 brix (except St. Pepin) by late September at second year, and Marquette at almost 26! Almost too high.

 

[grapeman]

The End of growing season arrived here October 12, and 13 and 14. We've had 3 days now with temps down to 28 degrees. Most of the vines leaves are burned now, but the Frontenac vines actually are still pretty green.

Time for them all to sleep now until spring. At least we aren't too close to Buffalo and their 2 feet of snow!


I've had some helpers also start some fall pruning(I'd just as soon wait until late winter to do it myself). They are leaving their tell-tale hoof marks in the soil and clipped vine ends. As long as they don't get carried away, it shouldn't hurt. The parts they are eating are to thin and green to make it through winter here anyway.


All in all, the vines look in great shape after their first growing season.

How is everybodies elses doing?

 

[NorthernWinos]

Hope those deer don't do too much damage...Know that you have too many vines to throw deer/bird netting over them...
Try tying some white plastic grocery bags to the vines....the fluttering of the bags in the breeze does deter the deer a bit...it is suppose to be like their distress alert of their flashing white tails....it kept them form eating most of my new yard trees last year....as well they had started rubbing their horns on the young trees...it did slow down their activities....
However...It looks like you are living near a land fill...
A 30.06 is the best bet!!!!


We had 4 days of below freezing temps last week, as well as freezing rain, sleet, ice and a light dusting of wet snow...It was in the 50's today.... Still had cabbages and Brussels Sprouts in the garden, as well as potatoes and carrots....Got it all out yesteday....The grapes are looking pretty sad...leaves are falling....

Edited by: Northern Winos

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

Not quite so dire here near the coast. There have been two nights below freezing. As you said Richard, the Frontenac seem to weather that cold the best, although the very tips of shoots and the young leaves there took it on the chin - they've had it. The other varieties look worse. Dead new leaves, shriveled and dried older leaves, maybe 10% dropped. At the beginning of September I thought I might have powdery mildew starting on a few of the Frontenac, but now I just don't know. It didn't progress and spread beyond the few leaves where grey lesions formed, so I'd like to think that it was just early seasonal deterioration. No deer problems so far, hopefully thanks to the obnoxious Irish Spring soap dangling next to each vine. It seems to have kept them away from other new plantings which the deer were eating early in the summer. Seems to work. Its good to hear from you guys and be able to picture your vines and gardens as, like mine, they begin to end the season.
Bill

 

[NorthernWinos]

Here is a shot of the vines..before the cold snap...

I had seen a show on vineyards from California...some place a rose bush at the end of each row...they are susceptible to the same fungus as grapes, and will show the signs sooner than the vines...unfortunatly...the roses I put to are disease resisitant...so show no signs of leaf spot, molds, etc....Look pretty tho.


Have been reading the book....'From Vines to Wines' by Jeff Cox....he said in the fall to plant a grassy annual cover crop between the rows [won't the deer like that???] Also, to let the weeds grow up under the vines....the grasses and weeds are suppose to keep the sun from warming the soil in early spring and break dormancy before the last frost....Interesting book...worth getting if you don't already have it...


Got holes dug and filled with compost where vines had died last winter....will put some of this years cuttings there first thing in the spring...will plant out the more disease resistant varieties [if they make it through the coming winter]

Did get the Raspberries all trimmed on one of the nicer days this past week....so, the fall gardening is coming to a screeching hault...time to let the Earth rest...

Edited by: Northern Winos