Chilian buckets and MLF

[Rodnboro]

I'm picking up my first Chilian juice buckets (Merlot and Malbec) tomorrow. I assume they will benefit from MLF. I think I read somewhere that MLF is done after fermentation with the lees present and stirred daily. Is this correct? If so, is this all gross lees? What is the best culture to use? Thanks

 

[ceeaton]

I've only done three batches so far with MLF. Used VP41 for my first batch last Spring, and CH35 last fall because I had both a red and white to inoculate and the description said it worked okay on both. I pitched it once I racked off the gross lees, still had some fine lees when it finished. Stirred it once a week max (some weeks I forgot). Some on here stir it, some don't, just like any other process, success can be had many ways! Some pitch with the yeast at the start of fermentation, others wait until it is moved out of the primary. Some use nutrients, some don't. I'm sure you get my drift. Hope that helps.

 

[sdelli]

Not really any gross lees when using juice buckets. Ferment then rack then inoculate with mlf... VP41 is a good one. Also use some Opti Malo nutrient as well. Try to keep temp in an area close to 70 as you can for best results.

 

[Boatboy24]

Yep, with buckets, the gross lees will be minimal. When going all grape, the process is to ferment, press, then sit for 24-48 hours and rack and pitch MLB. Because the buckets will have fewer gross lees (as @sdelli mentioned), you can rack to secondary and pitch MLB without that 'intermediate' racking.

I've had good success with VP41, as have others.

Edit: with the VP41, I hydrate with Acti-ML, and add Opti-Malo to the wine.

 

[heatherd]

I use VP41 consistently. I have successfully done MLF without stirring or nutrients, but it might work more quickly if you do.

You'll have to decide when you are done. You can taste it (which I did) or you can get a test.

 

[pkm925]

Rod, you're correct most red wines benefit from MLF.

That said, you might want to take a pass on MLF. I see you've been on the forum for some years so I figure you know a lot about wine making but you say you have no experience with Chilean Juice in particular.

I think that some of these juices have low PH values. Mine this year was 3.2, which is not good for MLF. Most MLF strains want a PH higher than 3.4. In my experience, 3.4 is about as high as I've seen Chilean Juice. This is my fifth year doing Chilean. Maybe I've just had some interesting batches of juices, I don't know.

MLF bacteria is expensive stuff. Make sure your acid is good enough for MLF or your fermentation will never start and you've wasted $30 or $40.

The other thing to remember is that you probably shouldn't use SO2 after your primary fermentation completes if you want to start MLF, this will add some element of risk to your wine making.

(I know some MLF strains have an SO2 tolerance, so if your going to use SO2, you really need to be able to test for it to determine if you meet that tolerance before you inoculate or else you blew that 30 or 40 bucks again.)

Finally, MLF is going to change your acid profile. So once again make sure your PH and T/A have acceptable values before you start because post MLF acid values will be different, maybe significantly, maybe not.

If your PH is good and you do decide to do MLF, try throwing a couple of handfuls of oak chips in your secondary. This may take the place of the 'fine' lees that you don't have with the juice and help with your wine in other ways (my experience is this juice can use the tannins).

Use a nutrient, Acti-ML and Opti-Malo are both fine. Use one or both.

You might try inoculating when your primary reaches around 5 degrees Brix before actually moving the wine to your secondary.

Finally, you may want to just try doing the Chilean straight out of the bucket this year, see how everything works out and next year when you have some better experience working with it then try MLF.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[Rodnboro]

Rod, you're correct most red wines benefit from MLF.

That said, you might want to take a pass on MLF. I see you've been on the forum for some years so I figure you know a lot about wine making but you say you have no experience with Chilean Juice in particular.

I think that some of these juices have low PH values. Mine this year was 3.2, which is not good for MLF. Most MLF strains want a PH higher than 3.4. In my experience, 3.4 is about as high as I've seen Chilean Juice. This is my fifth year doing Chilean. Maybe I've just had some interesting batches of juices, I don't know.

MLF bacteria is expensive stuff. Make sure your acid is good enough for MLF or your fermentation will never start and you've wasted $30 or $40.

The other thing to remember is that you probably shouldn't use SO2 after your primary fermentation completes if you want to start MLF, this will add some element of risk to your wine making.

(I know some MLF strains have an SO2 tolerance, so if your going to use SO2, you really need to be able to test for it to determine if you meet that tolerance before you inoculate or else you blew that 30 or 40 bucks again.)

Finally, MLF is going to change your acid profile. So once again make sure your PH and T/A have acceptable values before you start because post MLF acid values will be different, maybe significantly, maybe not.

If your PH is good and you do decide to do MLF, try throwing a couple of handfuls of oak chips in your secondary. This may take the place of the 'fine' lees that you don't have with the juice and help with your wine in other ways (my experience is this juice can use the tannins).

Use a nutrient, Acti-ML and Opti-Malo are both fine. Use one or both.

You might try inoculating when your primary reaches around 5 degrees Brix before actually moving the wine to your secondary.

Finally, you may want to just try doing the Chilean straight out of the bucket this year, see how everything works out and next year when you have some better experience working with it then try MLF.

Regards,
Kevin

Thanks For your help Kevin. I bought one bucket of Malbec and one Merlot. My initial ph was 3.7 and 3.9 with TA .3 on both. I added tartaric acid to lower ph to 3.6 on both and TA .4 on both. If these numbers stay the same, would it be advisable to perform mlf?
I've purchased a packet of VP-41 and Opti-Malo nutrient already. One more question, it I do mlf, the VP-41 package is divided into two parts. Do you mix together to pitch or is there some other sequence? The package did not come with instructions and I can't find any online. Thanks!

 

[Boatboy24]

The package did not come with instructions and I can't find any online. Thanks!

Here's a good write up:

https://morewinemaking.com/articles/how_to_mlf

 

[pkm925]

Rod,

Sounds like you're in good shape. You might want to try bumping your acid again (I'd try to get the ph down to 3.5, and this will also bring your T/A up a bit which might be good), or not. Have some fun with it.

I'm sorry I can't help you with VP-41. I've never used that strain. The ones I've used always come in just one envelope which I hydrated and pitched like yeast.

Maybe some of the guys that recommended VP-41 to you might be able to help here. Last resort, you can try contacting the shop where you bought it. If they don't know, ask them if you can contact the Sales Rep. that sold them the product.

I have MoreWine's Guide to Red Winemaking, interesting it has a different write-up on MLF than the one Jim gave you the URL for. Maybe it's cause my copy is a little old, 2013. You should get a PDF copy of the their Guide to Red Winemaking, lots of good info. Make sure you get the complete version, not the outline.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[Boatboy24]

Here's the guide that Kevin mentioned. Great resource.

http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wredw.pdf

 

[Rodnboro]

Great info. Thanks!