Commercial wine vs homemade - sulfites

[FermentoSapiens]

Hello. My mother has a sensitive stomach and can not drink commersial wine anymore, especially reds. She can drink my homemade wine, especially cheap kits that I use blueberrys and other berries in without any problems. Is it more sulfites in commersial wine or is it something else that gives her trouble with stomach?

 

[NorCal]

@FermentoSapiens the limit on commercial wines is 350ppm of total SO2, where balanced homemade wines should have less than 100. So it’s possible that is it, or could be tannins.

 

[mainshipfred]

My vote is tannins, can she eat raisins or dried fruit?

 

[Rocky]

I suspect it is the sulfite. Commercial wine makers have to load up on sulfites because they do not know how the wine will be stored before it is sold to the consumer. Temperatures in warehouses very widely between locations and even within the same warehouse (e.g. the temperature on the top rack of 4 or 5 racks is much higher than on the floor). I was told this by a winemaker in Italy when I asked him why I could drink bottles of wine in a day in Italy with no problem. He said that wine they were going to sell in Italy has less sulfite while wines that were exported to the US are loaded with sulfite to protect against problems arising from time before selling, handling and storage.

 

[rustbucket]

I agree with Fred, it's tannin. The determining clincher for me was Fermento Sapiens disclosure that his cheap fruit based kit wines don't bother her. Those wines would contain sulfites to prevent oxidation but would most likely not contain tannin.

 

[franc1969]

Tannins or histamines will cause issues for more people than sulfites. If your mother can have commercially dried fruits such as apricots- it's not the sulfites. That fruit in particular is loaded with sulfite to keep the color from turning an unappealing brown.
There are wands and drops available on Amazon that claim to remove sulfites, tannin, histamines from wine. I've never used them, though I would be interested in hearing about histamine removal if she decides that's the issue. I currently take a daily antihistamine that had knocked out my issue with wine and other aged foods, it might not last.

 

[user 36973]

I have a customer that complains of headaches with my red (sweet Concord) wine but not with my white wines. These had the same sulfite levels in each wine.

Although it is anecdotal, it fits with most of what I've heard that it is not sulfites but a compound formed in red wine during fermentation that gives headaches. Some people are genuinely sensitive to sulfites but I find that sulfites are an easy target to blame.

 

[Rice_Guy]

as one old fart to another. . what is your mom’s stomach symptom? I see acid reflux with a lot of wine.

Hello. My mother has a sensitive stomach and can not drink wine. . Is it more sulfites in commersial wine or is it something else

Acid reflux is dose related, it does not seem to be related to sulphites, reds are worse, I can share a bottle of elderberry with the neighbor and it’s OK
? Tannin ? Age acetaldehyde?

 

[rsportsman]

Most commercial reds have undergone MLF, which is well-known to introduce histamines and other biogenic amines. These compounds can produce migraine-like symptoms (headache, gastric upset) in some individuals.
Sulfite is usually NOT the cause of these symptoms, but rather, in rare cases of people with sulfite allergy, more of a standard allergic reaction (rash, itching, asthma).

 

[FermentoSapiens]

Thank you for all good answers. Many interesting thoughts here. She can handle white wine better than red. The cheap kits I make is 5 litre grape consentrate (mostly red kits) that is watered out to 23 liter as it says in the instructions. I exchange some of the water with 2kg blueberries, 0,5 kg raspberries and sometimes black cherries. Uses also 0,5 teaspoon tannin in the primary. When making white wine I use half chest of grapefruit in primary. I dont know if she gets trouble when eating raisins or other dried fruits. Will ask her next time I see her. Im sure I use less sulfites than in commersial wine when I read the first answer from NorCal. Also tannin is certainly lower.

 

[Rocky]

Here is something I came across regarding sulfites and histamines. Sounds like it is both sulfites and tannin (the source of the histamine?).

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...736255A4B496AD51F006736255A4B496&&FORM=VRDGAR

Here is "The Wand" on Amazon. Looks like about $2.50 per glass! Wow. I think I would just take the headaches.

https://www.amazon.com/PureWine-Hea...19VMRPFDZV1&psc=1&refRID=E2FH367WA19VMRPFDZV1

and another alternative,

https://www.amazon.com/Drop-Natural...K0ZS9Q3JEQG&psc=1&refRID=ZJY93KVF7K0ZS9Q3JEQG

 

[Ignoble Grape]

Here is something I came across regarding sulfites and histamines. Sounds like it is both sulfites and tannin (the source of the histamine?).

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...736255A4B496AD51F006736255A4B496&&FORM=VRDGAR

Here is "The Wand" on Amazon. Looks like about $2.50 per glass! Wow. I think I would just take the headaches.

https://www.amazon.com/PureWine-Hea...19VMRPFDZV1&psc=1&refRID=E2FH367WA19VMRPFDZV1

and another alternative,

https://www.amazon.com/Drop-Natural...K0ZS9Q3JEQG&psc=1&refRID=ZJY93KVF7K0ZS9Q3JEQG

Aren't the drops just hydrogen peroxide?? I'm not 100%, but think that they are. That would be a cheap experiment.

 

[stickman]

The drops are basically an egg white fining agent with sunflower lecithin and hydrogen peroxide. The Wand claims it's some type of surface active nano-filter. The latest information on sulfites that I could find indicates sensitivities to sulfites dissolved in foods have been shown to occur, although quite rarely (estimated at two sensitive individuals per 1 million Americans.1) The principal cause is a genetic deficiency of the enzyme sulfate dehydrogenase in the liver, which can lead to severe reactions to high-sulfite foods such as fish and dried fruits.
1. Lester, M.R. Sulfite sensitivity: Significance in human health. J. Am. Coll. Nutr. 14(3): 229-232. (1995)

However that article didn't specifically mention wine.

If these products help some people, that's great, I guess I should be glad I don't need them, it's hard to believe the flavor of the wine is not affected.

 

[salcoco]

I would vote for acid reflux. since fruit wines don't seem to bother her.

 

[Rocky]

Aren't the drops just hydrogen peroxide?? I'm not 100%, but think that they are. That would be a cheap experiment.

I did not see what the ingredients were but you could be right that it is H2O2. I know that I add a few drops of it to wine that I intend to make into vinegar to neutralize the sulfites. Don't know about the tannins (or histamines).

 

[Rocky]

I would vote for acid reflux. since fruit wines don't seem to bother her.

In which case I would highly recommend Esomeprazole (sometimes know as Nexium) but available without a Rx in 20 mg. capsules over the counter.

 

[Scooter68]

You are suggesting a problem with Reds as significantly more serious than Whites BUT she still has a problem with both to some extent but not berries. If that's correctI would guess tannins could be a primary cause but not necessarily the only problem. What about the Alcohol levels? Sulfites could be a part of the issue but if she had zero problem with berries you make that have sulfites, then the issue is likely some other content. Don't totally rule out the power of suggestion. The fact that both whites and red are of course grape based and naturally that's something that she would know.... then she could have predisposed herself to the problem in part. Being predisposed is not something to be bothered but simply aware of - similar to the "Expert" wine tasters assuming that American wines would always be inferior to French wine.... until 1976.