Just because we both have "medium toast chips" doesn't mean they are the same. Different vendors may do things differently.
WM81 Fall 2024 Experiments
- Thread starter winemaker81
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My son & I started today's activities by racking the free run wine from 2 containers of Chardonnel, which were fermented on the skins. We grossed about 8 gallons total.
We reserved 1.5 liters of each batch, as we used QA23 and 71B, respectively. Once the wine settles out, we'll bottle a single 750 ml bottle of each for later comparison. The remainder will be added back into the main batch.
The QA23 is more acidic than the 71B, which makes sense as the 71B eats malic acid. We inoculated with Lalvin 31 MLB, so the two wines may even out.
Pressing 125 lbs of grapes went quickly. We use rice hulls to help with extraction. The two batches will be fully blended later. At this time the separate carboys were topped with pressings.
Overall, we grossed 11.5 gallons of wine, more than expected.
The cake looks tiny after pressing:
We reserved 1.5 liters of each batch, as we used QA23 and 71B, respectively. Once the wine settles out, we'll bottle a single 750 ml bottle of each for later comparison. The remainder will be added back into the main batch.
The QA23 is more acidic than the 71B, which makes sense as the 71B eats malic acid. We inoculated with Lalvin 31 MLB, so the two wines may even out.
Pressing 125 lbs of grapes went quickly. We use rice hulls to help with extraction. The two batches will be fully blended later. At this time the separate carboys were topped with pressings.
Overall, we grossed 11.5 gallons of wine, more than expected.
The cake looks tiny after pressing:
VinesnBines
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I can name four reasons for the much extraction. Freezing the grapes, maceration enzymes, macerating on the skins and using rice hulls.
I’m anxious to see how much you get from the Chelois and Chambourcin pressing. Since you are using the pomace with your juice buckets, I assume you won’t use rice hulls. I predict you will get a little more from the Chelois. The skins are thinner.
I’m anxious to see how much you get from the Chelois and Chambourcin pressing. Since you are using the pomace with your juice buckets, I assume you won’t use rice hulls. I predict you will get a little more from the Chelois. The skins are thinner.
Spot on!
We won't use rice hulls for the first pressing of the Chambourcin and Chelois. We will use rice hull when we do the second pressing (Pinot Noir buckets + pomace).
Last year we grossed nearly 24 gallons from 2 juice buckets (Sangiovese)+ pomace from 20 lugs. We left a LOT of wine in the pomace. But this is ok, as the Sangiovese is fantastic!
I picked up the Pinot Noir juice buckets tonight. Tomorrow we press the Chambourcin and Chelois, and start the PN with the pomace.
We pressed the Chambourcin and Chelois today. There results?
WOW!
I was expecting to press 18 to 19 gallons of each. We drained the free run from the first container of Chambourcin and over half filled a 54 liter demijohn. The total gross of the Chambourcin with a light pressing is 26 US gallons.
Then we did the Chelois -- 24.5 gallons.
Thankfully my son brought his two 19 liter carboys. We have exactly one 12 liter carboy free.
But we're not done -- we took the pomace from the two grapes and added it to a pair of 6 gallon buckets of Pinot Noir. Tomorrow I pickup 150 lbs of Vidal from @VinesnBines.
In theory we were cutting down production this year, but the yields from the French-American hybrids exceeded all expectations, by a lot.
Once the 2023 wines in barrel are bottled we have plenty of secondary storage. It's getting from Point A to Point B that is the problem. We are in problem solving mode.
WOW!
I was expecting to press 18 to 19 gallons of each. We drained the free run from the first container of Chambourcin and over half filled a 54 liter demijohn. The total gross of the Chambourcin with a light pressing is 26 US gallons.
Then we did the Chelois -- 24.5 gallons.
Thankfully my son brought his two 19 liter carboys. We have exactly one 12 liter carboy free.
But we're not done -- we took the pomace from the two grapes and added it to a pair of 6 gallon buckets of Pinot Noir. Tomorrow I pickup 150 lbs of Vidal from @VinesnBines.
In theory we were cutting down production this year, but the yields from the French-American hybrids exceeded all expectations, by a lot.
Once the 2023 wines in barrel are bottled we have plenty of secondary storage. It's getting from Point A to Point B that is the problem. We are in problem solving mode.
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VinesnBines
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Our Cayuga was yielding 10 pounds to the gallon. Of 500 lbs we have over 50 gallons. Yikes. That’s off 67 vines. We have 100 more two year Cayuga vines. Scary!
I'm reviewing our options. It's either buy more carboys (which I don't want to do) or we bottle two of the barrels before we press on Saturday. This will be an interesting week ...
When working with batches this size, a pump is essential. It saves a LOT of time and dramatically reduces labor.
One improvement we made in our process last year was to NOT carry the full fermenter up front to press. We use the racking jig and the pump to remove as much wine as possible, then carry only the remainder. The lines in the next photo show must how much wine was removed from a 32 gallon Brute:
We filled a 54 liter demijohn with just free run wine. The 4 liter jug and 19 liter carboy next to it provide scale.
300 lbs of grapes fill a #40 press about 80% full. It will probably hold another 50 to 75 lbs of grapes.
And after pressing, the cake is impressively tiny:
One improvement we made in our process last year was to NOT carry the full fermenter up front to press. We use the racking jig and the pump to remove as much wine as possible, then carry only the remainder. The lines in the next photo show must how much wine was removed from a 32 gallon Brute:
We filled a 54 liter demijohn with just free run wine. The 4 liter jug and 19 liter carboy next to it provide scale.
300 lbs of grapes fill a #40 press about 80% full. It will probably hold another 50 to 75 lbs of grapes.
And after pressing, the cake is impressively tiny:
This morning I "punched down" the fermenters of Pinot Noir juice with Chambourcin and Chelois pomace.
It's not exactly "punching down"; more like "turn it over the best ya can!" The pomace to juice ratio is very high, which is intentional, as I want the PN juice to extract as much "oomph" as possible from the pomace.
It's not exactly "punching down"; more like "turn it over the best ya can!" The pomace to juice ratio is very high, which is intentional, as I want the PN juice to extract as much "oomph" as possible from the pomace.
This year I purchased 2 Pinot Noir juice buckets through the Durham group -- all grapes through @VinesnBines.
Each year the guys in the Durham group post numbers for their grapes. Across all varietals the pH ranged from 3.89 to 4.1, and the brix ranged from 25.5 to 33 brix (Primitivo).
Wow. It seems the CA grapes were all picked late.
Are other folks who purchased CA grapes getting numbers like these?
Each year the guys in the Durham group post numbers for their grapes. Across all varietals the pH ranged from 3.89 to 4.1, and the brix ranged from 25.5 to 33 brix (Primitivo).
Wow. It seems the CA grapes were all picked late.
Are other folks who purchased CA grapes getting numbers like these?
Paulie vino
Senior Member
I got CA grapes, syrah and grenache, colavita brand and the pH was 3.8 brix 23. That was early October though.
This has been a busy week. Our yields were very high, which is a good thing ... except we had 25+ gallons of wine to press this weekend and the only container available was a 12 liter carboy. OOPS!!!!
Tuesday my son & I bottled 9 gallons of 2023 Chambourcin blended with 1 gallon 2023 Merlot. The Merlot really gave the Chambourcin depth.
Yesterday we drained the Cabernet Sauvignon and Cabernet Franc barrels, and bottled them. As I described in the WM81 Fall 2023 Experiments thread, our plans for the blends didn't work out -- we hated them. So we bottled the CS in a totally different blend, and bottled the CF as a varietal.
Then we filled those barrels with 2024 Chambourcin and 2024 Chelois, freeing up a lot of space.
This morning we pressed 130 lbs of Vidal. It's interesting to see how much the pomace compresses.
Then we pressed the Pinot Noir, which was fermented with the pomace from 300 lbs each Chambourcin and Chelois. This filled the #40 press literally to the brim. We had to manually push down on the press blocks to make room.
We used rice hulls to improve extraction, and pressed the heck out of it.
We grossed 12 gallons of Vidal and 17 gallons of Pinot Noir.
Something to consider is we used 2 juice buckets, totally 12 US gallons. This means the pomace had 5 gallons of wine left in it. The preliminary tasting of a very green wine shows promise. This wine will go into a barrel in 2 weeks, and will be bottled next October or November.
Tuesday my son & I bottled 9 gallons of 2023 Chambourcin blended with 1 gallon 2023 Merlot. The Merlot really gave the Chambourcin depth.
Yesterday we drained the Cabernet Sauvignon and Cabernet Franc barrels, and bottled them. As I described in the WM81 Fall 2023 Experiments thread, our plans for the blends didn't work out -- we hated them. So we bottled the CS in a totally different blend, and bottled the CF as a varietal.
Then we filled those barrels with 2024 Chambourcin and 2024 Chelois, freeing up a lot of space.
This morning we pressed 130 lbs of Vidal. It's interesting to see how much the pomace compresses.
Then we pressed the Pinot Noir, which was fermented with the pomace from 300 lbs each Chambourcin and Chelois. This filled the #40 press literally to the brim. We had to manually push down on the press blocks to make room.
We used rice hulls to improve extraction, and pressed the heck out of it.
We grossed 12 gallons of Vidal and 17 gallons of Pinot Noir.
Something to consider is we used 2 juice buckets, totally 12 US gallons. This means the pomace had 5 gallons of wine left in it. The preliminary tasting of a very green wine shows promise. This wine will go into a barrel in 2 weeks, and will be bottled next October or November.
I screwed up with the barrels. We co-inoculated all wines (white and red) with Lalvin 31 MLB. The grapes spent 14 days in the fermenter, then another 7 days in glass before moving to the barrels.
When prepping the barrels, I did my usual -- added K-meta plus oak cubes. The Chambourcin barrel was a quarter full when I realized I didn't want to add K-meta yet ...
Oh, well.
The wine had 3 weeks for the MLB to do its thing, and it definitely tasted less acidic than I expected. Plus I had 2 more carboys that have not yet received K-meta, so they're still going.
I plan to purchase a chromatography kit, and will test all wines prior to adding K-meta to the remaining reds and whites. It will be interesting to see if there is a difference in the wines.
When prepping the barrels, I did my usual -- added K-meta plus oak cubes. The Chambourcin barrel was a quarter full when I realized I didn't want to add K-meta yet ...
Oh, well.
The wine had 3 weeks for the MLB to do its thing, and it definitely tasted less acidic than I expected. Plus I had 2 more carboys that have not yet received K-meta, so they're still going.
I plan to purchase a chromatography kit, and will test all wines prior to adding K-meta to the remaining reds and whites. It will be interesting to see if there is a difference in the wines.
Sunday we bottled the 2023 Sangiovese, and filled that barrel with the Pinot Noir. It was a busy day!
You may be able to restart MLF after the wine sits for a while, or even the barrel will do it for you eventually.
The kit arrives this week so I'll test all the wines. We'll see where we're at.
I received an email from MoreWinemaking last night, stating something wasn't available and if I didn't receive a new ship order in 2 days, I should contact them.
Sorry, but that's BS. Pure BS.
THEY should be keeping ME apprised. This may be my last order from them, assuming I actually get it.
Sorry, but that's BS. Pure BS.
THEY should be keeping ME apprised. This may be my last order from them, assuming I actually get it.
Yeah, I wonder if MoreWine is drop shipping. Supposedly they have a large fancy warehouse. This may be the future of all internet purchasing.
It does save time and money. Especially since I qualified for free shipping.
I emailed them now, asking for a new shipping date. We'll see what I get from them.
