cork life

[globalnavigator]

I just bottled a couple of batches of wine that I expect will be used over the next 3-5 years. Unfortunately, I used corks that LP recommends for 1-2 years. Will that be an issue, and should I recork all with the better corks?

Thanks in advance!

 

[MiBor]

What size corks have you used? LP shows 4 different sizes on that category?
The #9 x 1 3/4 corks will most likely be OK for the next 3-5 years (if you store the bottles on the side, in place with small temperature variations), but the #7 or #8 corks may fail prematurely...

 

[globalnavigator]

What size corks have you used? LP shows 4 different sizes on that category?
The #9 x 1 3/4 corks will most likely be OK for the next 3-5 years (if you store the bottles on the side, in place with small temperature variations), but the #7 or #8 corks may fail prematurely...

Unfortunately, we used #8 corks. Is there any risk in replacing wine bottle corks that are in for a few weeks?

 

[Rocky]

Unfortunately, we used #8 corks. Is there any risk in replacing wine bottle corks that are in for a few weeks?

I would definitely replace them with #9 corks, preferably 1 3/4". There should be no problem if you work fast and do one bottle at a time, i.e. uncork it and recork it. Also, I recommend the Nomacorc's. I realize they are more expensive, but you put a lot of time and effort into your wine and an additional $.10 per bottle is a good investment.

 

[winemaker81]

Unfortunately, we used #8 corks. Is there any risk in replacing wine bottle corks that are in for a few weeks?

I agree, don't use #8's for anything except short term (< 1 year), and even then, I don't use them. Since 2018 I've used the Nomacorc Select 900 (1-1/2")and have no problem with bottles from that time. The last bag I purchased (1,000 count) is 1-3/4, which provides more longevity.

 

[MiBor]

Unfortunately, we used #8 corks. Is there any risk in replacing wine bottle corks that are in for a few weeks?

Was that choice made because you used a hand corker to insert them in the bottles?

#9 corks are hard to insert with a hand corker and you most likely will have to buy a floor corker for the job, if that's the case.

The opinions on Nomacorc diverge widely, so I will not coment on that. I will only drop a link to the Diam corks I use. This reseller packages them in 25,100 and 1000 quantities. They come in boxes of 1000 or 3000 from the US distributor, G3...

Corks- DIAM 5

 

[Rocky]

Was that choice made because you used a hand corker to insert them in the bottles?

#9 corks are hard to insert with a hand corker and you most likely will have to buy a floor corker for the job, if that's the case.

The opinions on Nomacorc diverge widely, so I will not coment on that. I will only drop a link to the Diam corks I use. This reseller packages them in 25,100 and 1000 quantities. They come in boxes of 1000 or 3000 from the US distributor, G3...

Corks- DIAM 5

MiBor, if I read into your comments correctly, I assume you have a negative view on Nomacorcs. In that our intention is to exchange ideas and experiences on this site, I would be very interested in your input. I have used a number of corks, natural, agglomerate, agglomerate with natural caps, and Nomacorcs, essentially in that order. I am using only Nomacorcs at present (#9 by 1 1/2" and #9 by 1 3/4") and have had no issues with them. If your experience is different, I would be interested in it.

 

[globalnavigator]

Was that choice made because you used a hand corker to insert them in the bottles?

#9 corks are hard to insert with a hand corker and you most likely will have to buy a floor corker for the job, if that's the case.

The opinions on Nomacorc diverge widely, so I will not coment on that. I will only drop a link to the Diam corks I use. This reseller packages them in 25,100 and 1000 quantities. They come in boxes of 1000 or 3000 from the US distributor, G3...

Corks- DIAM 5

No, I have a floor corker. I make wine with my brother-in-law and those were the corks he bought (even though I suggested he buy the nomacorcs).

 

[MiBor]

@Rocky I've had a less than stellar experience with Nomacorc, especially on bottles that got heavy duty vinyl shrink capsules and required a little more heat to shrink. The corks softened and got stuck in many of the bottles.

Also, a few bottles that were stored on the side started leaking about 2-3 months after corking. Maybe it was a bad batch of Nomacorcs, or maybe they were older than a year. The manufacturer's site says to not use them if they are older than 12 months.

I started looking for better options and found Diam, a suggestion that @BarrelMonkey made in one of his posts, if I remember correctly. I bought a few small batches, than I bought a box of 1000 and never looked back. I give away wine to a lot of people and they are all impressed with the quality and feel of the corks I use. Diam are a little more expensive than Nomacorc if you buy them in small quantities but they don't have an expiration date and are just as good for many years, if bought in bulk. I've used them in 500-600 bottles so far and not a single one failed in any way after insertion.

Again, this is purely my experience and I don't want to argue how good or bad Nomacorcs are, since a lot of people have had good luck with them. I think they work fine if no heat (or very little heat) is involved in the capsule instalation process and if they are new (recently manufactured) at bottling time.

 

[Rocky]

@MiBor, thank you for the comprehensive reply. I will have to be more careful in the future. I use boiling water to shrink my capsules, so the temp is around 212 degrees F. I also have a bag of 1000 that I bought about a year ago so I do have a concern based on the input from the manufacturer. I was not aware of a "shelf life" issue with them. I may break down that 1000 bag into 100's, add a little moisture and vacuum pack them with my Food Saver.

Thanks again.

 

[winemaker81]

I also have a bag of 1000 that I bought about a year ago so I do have a concern based on the input from the manufacturer.

What input?

I use a heat gun to shrink capsules and have no problems with the Nomacorcs. The heating is very quick, far faster than when I used a blow dryer.

 

[Rocky]

I was referring to MiBor's citation above, "Also, a few bottles that were stored on the side started leaking about 2-3 months after corking. Maybe it was a bad batch of Nomacorcs, or maybe they were older than a year. The manufacturer's site says to not use them if they are older than 12 months."

 

[Rocky]

@Rocky I've had a less than stellar experience with Nomacorc, especially on bottles that got heavy duty vinyl shrink capsules and required a little more heat to shrink. The corks softened and got stuck in many of the bottles.

Also, a few bottles that were stored on the side started leaking about 2-3 months after corking. Maybe it was a bad batch of Nomacorcs, or maybe they were older than a year. The manufacturer's site says to not use them if they are older than 12 months.

I started looking for better options and found Diam, a suggestion that @BarrelMonkey made in one of his posts, if I remember correctly. I bought a few small batches, than I bought a box of 1000 and never looked back. I give away wine to a lot of people and they are all impressed with the quality and feel of the corks I use. Diam are a little more expensive than Nomacorc if you buy them in small quantities but they don't have an expiration date and are just as good for many years, if bought in bulk. I've used them in 500-600 bottles so far and not a single one failed in any way after insertion.

Again, this is purely my experience and I don't want to argue how good or bad Nomacorcs are, since a lot of people have had good luck with them. I think they work fine if no heat (or very little heat) is involved in the capsule instalation process and if they are new (recently manufactured) at bottling time.

MiBor, can you clarify where you saw the caution not to use the Nomacorcs if they are greater than 12 months old, please? Are you sure it was the manufacturer and not the retailer? I have been to the Nomacorc website and I could not find any reference to shelf life.

Thank you.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

I started looking for better options and found Diam, a suggestion that @BarrelMonkey made in one of his posts, if I remember correctly

Not me, maybe it was @Nebbiolo020? though I would be interested to try them based on your report

 

[winemaker81]

I was referring to MiBor's citation above, "Also, a few bottles that were stored on the side started leaking about 2-3 months after corking. Maybe it was a bad batch of Nomacorcs, or maybe they were older than a year. The manufacturer's site says to not use them if they are older than 12 months."

The vendor has stated that the corks have a limited shelf life; I've seen it in their docs. However, I have used ones that were 2+ years old with no problems and the bottles are fine 2+ years later.

I suspect the warning is for liability reasons. Consider that the bottles can be stood upright and the Select 900 are good for 5 years ... so why will corks stored in good conditions not continue to be fine? What is the difference between unused and in-bottle?

Generally I consider vendor warnings, but not all carry the same weight.

 

[Rocky]

The vendor has stated that the corks have a limited shelf life; I've seen it in their docs. However, I have used ones that were 2+ years old with no problems and the bottles are fine 2+ years later.

I suspect the warning is for liability reasons. Consider that the bottles can be stood upright and the Select 900 are good for 5 years ... so why will corks stored in good conditions not continue to be fine? What is the difference between unused and in-bottle?

Generally I consider vendor warnings, but not all carry the same weight.

I am even more cynical. I think the vendors do it to sell more product, hoping customers will throw away older goods and buy new!

Regarding your question, boldened above, the only difference I can see is there is a "wet side" when in the bottle. Don't know if that would make a difference or not, but there it is.

 

[cmason1957]

What is the difference between unused and in-bottle?

One other difference (but I can't see why it matters). Once inserted into the bottle, it is slightly compressed, compared to being outside the bottle.

Perhaps someone who knows more about the chemistry/physics of it all knows why it might matter.

I tend to think it is liability, more for commercial operations than for us home folks. As in a bridge is rated for about 1/2 of the real load it could carry for safety reasons.

 

[winemaker81]

I am even more cynical. I think the vendors do it to sell more product, hoping customers will throw away older goods and buy new!

Probably not more than me. I was thinking what you're thinking, although I didn't say it.

Regarding your question, boldened above, the only difference I can see is there is a "wet side" when in the bottle. Don't know if that would make a difference or not, but there it is.

I considered the "wet" part of it, but since the bottles can be stood upright, that does appear to be a factor.

One other difference (but I can't see why it matters). Once inserted into the bottle, it is slightly compressed, compared to being outside the bottle.

I thought of that as well, but can't see how it matters.

I tend to think it is liability, more for commercial operations than for us home folks. As in a bridge is rated for about 1/2 of the real load it could carry for safety reasons.

Emphasis mine. Home winemakers are not high on Nomacorc's radar. I doubt our market is even 5% of their overall sales.

I've emailed them a few times, never got a reply. However, a few weeks back I found myself on Vinvention's email list, so they are capturing emails, even if they don't bother responding.

 

[Rocky]

I considered the "wet" part of it, but since the bottles can be stood upright, that does appear to be a factor.

Yes, standing them upright would eliminate direct liquid contact but the "air" between the liquid level and the bottom of the cork inside the bottle would have some measure of humidity. May not be a factor.

In any case, I have not had problems with Nomacorcs (other than driving them too deeply into the bottle; need to get my bionic arm adjusted!). Someone noted above that they should be inserted "dry" and that may be part of my problem as I spritz them with K-meta.

 

[winemaker81]

Yes, standing them upright would eliminate direct liquid contact but the "air" between the liquid level and the bottom of the cork inside the bottle would have some measure of humidity. May not be a factor.

Since natural corks dry out and leak if the bottle is upright, I doubt that it makes any difference to Nomacorcs.

In any case, I have not had problems with Nomacorcs (other than driving them too deeply into the bottle; need to get my bionic arm adjusted!). Someone noted above that they should be inserted "dry" and that may be part of my problem as I spritz them with K-meta.

Treatment of corks prior to insertion is not helpful. Commercial wineries cut the bag and empty it into the bottling line's hopper. The corks are clean-n-dry from the factory.

I cut a slit in the top of the bag, big enough to extract corks. The counter is wiped with K-meta solution prior to bottling, so it's both clean and sanitized. The corks are lined up on the counter and plucked off as each bottle goes into the corker.

After bottling is done, I roll the end of the bag up, pressing out as much air as possible, and secure it with a standard office binder clip.

Originally I boiled corks, as that is what I was told to do. Don't do this, it makes the corks brittle and chunks can flake off on insertion and extraction. Later I soaked in K-meta solution for 10 minutes.

This stopped (circa 1989) when I had a discussion with a winery owner. He literally laughed at me and told me I was wasting time-n-effort. I have bottled from the bag since then. I've had entire batches go bad, but have not had a problem bottle. YMMV