Cranberry... why you do this to me again!

[Grape Expectations]

The first 100% cranberry juice I tried, stalled. I think I left it a month and it got to 10% ABV and just stopped managing to gain any more ABV (when the aim was for it to end up maxed out at around 18%). That was "Ocean Spray" nearing it's best before date from a warehouse that sells that sort of stuff and it had what looked like some sort of Scandinavian language on the ingredients, leading me to believe that perhaps it had potassium sorbate in and those sneaky Swedes just weren't putting it on the label (just kidding... but I mean, perhaps they simply have laws stating it's legal to not list that, I dunno).

The main reason I thought that first one stalled was "It's cranberry therefore low pH" but after testing with pH strips (made for winemaking that only have a range of 2.8 to 4.4) the original pH was perfectly fine at 3.4 pH. By this point (before getting pH strips) I had already added 1/2 tsp of bicarbonate of soda per demijohn and that brought it to 3.8 pH - which matched the pH of the orange juice that I typically had great success with, fermenting like crazy.

Why would it stall then? My only guess was, the cartons were perhaps stored badly, maybe that had frozen and thawed a few times (would it even matter?) or maybe had the sun shining on it (would it even matter?).

Now fast forward a few months and again I dared to dip my toe into the world of cranberry juice, this time using a store bought (UK) juice with the ingredients in English and "no added sugar" from Aldi. Mixing it half and half with their orange juice from concentrate, it was perhaps the best fermentation I have seen yet.

Right... that's confirmed cranberry can ferment, so I'll try 100% cranberry again, but this time instead of some nearly out-of-date Ocean Spray Swedish stuff, I will try the same Aldi stuff that fermented like crazy when mixed with their orange.

Nope, it seems the Aldi cranberry is now doing exactly what the Ocean Spray did - absolutely no action after 7 hours. Normally there's a bubble every 10 seconds by now. Yeast isn't moving around, I know already, it's stalling and is doing what the last batch of 100% cranberry juice did.

The pH was tested at 2.9 so, maybe that's not ideal, I can add a bit of bicarbonate of soda and hope for the best, but it's not looking good! Last time with the Ocean Spray stuff, I salvaged it by making an "emergency" 20L batch from orange juice to mix in with the stalled cranberry. Incidentally that was the best and smoothest wine I have ever made.

How many ways are there to salvage a stalled fermentation when you already know the pH is nearly at the ideal level and the temps are 21°C to 26°C? The best way to me was to make an emergency batch of something very dry you can mix into the stalled cranberry and pray that it's at least fermented enough that it's not to sweet when mixed with the almost completely dry wine.

Short version:
- Orange works. I've had 18% ABV in 7 days, more than once.
- Orange and cranberry (50:50) works. I've had 18% ABV in 7 days.
- Cranberry just doesn't work. It's an absolute pain.

 

[Jovimaple]

What was the starting SG and what is the SG now?

Are you fermenting in an open bucket or under airlock?

What kind of yeast? Have you added yeast nutrient along the way?

One of my very first batches was a US gallon from 3.5 lbs cranberries. I added raisins and sugar and used Red Star Premiere Classique yeast. I had a starting SG of 1.090, racked it about 6 days later when it was at 1.002, and then when I checked it about a week later, it was down to .993. I did have it on a heating pad so the temp was up about 75° F.

 

[winemaker81]

Your first batch may have stalled because of words on the label, specifically "Ocean Spray". Not that there's anything wrong with drinking Ocean Spray juices, but they are designed for drinking, not fermenting. While there may be no sorbate, it's possible other preservatives inhibit fermentation. I tried fermenting Ocean Spray juice many moons ago and it never got below 1.014, even after a year.

 

[Rice_Guy]

WINE IS A FOOD PRESERVATION SYSTEM

OK, ,, this in part translates to pH is a major preservative which industry uses to make food safe. If we add a low level of alcohol the effect of pH is magnified (5%ABV) and whole classes of microbes are killed off. If we are targeting 18% ABV and have high sugar that translates into a food preservation rule about high osmotic pressure and more families of microbes are killed off. Free SO2 can prevent growth, low oxygen for reproduction can prevent growth. low nitrogen/ yeast micro nutrients can prevent growth.

For where you are consider yourself lucky. You have created a preserved food/ calorie source. This was the ultimate goal when wine was invented 5000 years ago.

In the future raising yeast is farming. Any pH below 2.8 can stop growth if you add another stressor to your food. Running low on nutrient will stop growth or force the yeast into reductive (stinky sulfur) metabolism. Using a yeast that won’t tolerate high alcohol is a stressor. etc etc etc. We have highest chance of success if we do a process called step feeding if our target is 18% ABV. (build a 1.080 gravity must and add more sugar when it slows down/ drops to 1.010)

 

[Grape Expectations]

Today is only the 2nd day after starting it. There's a lot of tiny bubbles but then, there was last time with the stalled Ocean Spray. I should know by tomorrow, if there isn't the usual plumes of yeast shooting up with foaming happening, it's probably going to do what the Ocean Spray cranberry did and take months, never getting above 14% ABV with a disgusting sweetness!

The reason I thought this (Aldi "no added sugar") cranberry might work is, it's the same stuff I mixed 50:50 with their orange on the last batch and that fermented as well as I have ever done it. My theory was, if mixing in half cranberry didn't slow down the fermentation one bit, then presumably full cranberry should work. It seems that it just doesn't work like that though.

The Ocean Spray had an unusual pH level considering it was cranberry juice, at 3.4 pH. I did raise it to 3.8 pH in a vain attempt at kick starting it, which didn't make one iota of difference to the fermenting speed.

Start SG was 1.138 this time, because I am trying to leave about 50g/L sugar in at the end, although at this SG level, it can get down to 1.000 and it would be at 18.4% ABV so I'll have to see what the yeast is capable of. I know it's the wrong way to do it and it should be sweetened afterwards, but I am deliberately aiming at the highest ABV so thought it would probably be OK.

I used Youngs everything: "Super Wine Yeast Compound For High Alcohol". Their nutrient, pectolase and bentonite. 1.5 tsp yeast, 1 tsp of the others, per 5L.

It's all the same setup as every other time, except I usually start at around 1.126 SG and get 17%-18% ABV, ending around the 0.992 to 0.996 range.

The aim was to have this one ending around 1.013 to 1.017 with 18% ABV or even 19% but if it does ferment like it's meant to then it won't stop around 1.013 to 1.017 because that's 16.1% to 16.7% ABV and I know this yeast can at least get to 18%. It can end up nearly dry so if it happens, I will back sweeten it.

I did have an orange only batch stall slightly recently, but I think it was because the temps were getting to 30°C. Using the same yeast on another batch, it fermented well.

Cheers folks.

 

[Rice_Guy]

* CURIOUS,, have you done sugar calculations? 18% ABV translates into 43% starting sugar. (There are calculators on the web). My must starts with a Kg weight of juice and gravity and then I figure out how many Kg of added sugar I want. I may add it all at once or I may break it up into several additions, example get a must to 1.090/ about 12% ABV (27% sugar) by adding 1.74 Kg and when I rack at 1.020 add more juice with .5Kg sugar melted in to top off the carboy. ,,,, I would do a sugar calculation and start at 1.090 then add 200 gm each time the gravity got to 1.030 to 1.040. Mixing some air in also helps the yeast.
* 20 to 25C is OK for the yeast BUT the higher the temp, the faster the ferment and the greater the risk of sulfury/ reductive flavor. (H2S / mercaptans). Low temp ferments as 12 or 15C are easier on the yeast.
* a few cranberry numbers from US: cocktail with added apple& pear juice pH 3.45; cocktail with HFCS pH 2.85; cranberry I pressed pH 2.69 to 2.52; cranberry without any sugar pH 2.7. pH paper is hard to read accurately.
* as a personal opinion I really like the flavor of orange and cranberry. I have tried butternut squash (low titratable acidity) plus cranberry (TA 3%) plus orange concentrate (TA 2.2%) building a must with a TA in the proper 0.5 to 0.7% range. I also like apple & cranberry, you should have good apple available there.
* All chemicals I put in all food sold in the European market need an EC number on the label. ,,, If there wasn’t a number sorbate was not included. ,,,
* what yeast? 1118 here in the US is our choice it is fairly reliable at reaching 17 to 18% ABV. Most yeast on the US market stop at 14 to 15% ABV
* I do not know your nutrient blend. Bentonite will help clear a wine and remove yeast/ nitrogen

 

[Grape Expectations]

I don't know the exact name of the yeast apart from it's brand name "Youngs" for high alcohol. The last batch of orange from this same tub of yeast came out to nearly 18% ABV.

It's 2.5 days in now and the ABV is at 3.1%. It's normally above 14% at this stage with orange and all the same powders (starting at around 1.126 SG typically). This cranberry did start higher, at 1.138 SG and is now at 1.115 SG. I reckon it would take around 45 days as opposed to the usual 7-10 days orange takes.

I'm just going to throw in another 1 tsp of nutrient (or 2!) per 5L and see if it makes any difference. If it doesn't, I think a fresh yeast starter done in orange juice might be needed - the inspiration:
No Fermentation after 48 hours

 

[Rice_Guy]

* We have a high acid drink called “Skeeter Pee” which works best if a large population of yeast are added. It would be neat if you had another fermentation going and you could collect the lees off of it to start the cranberry. As a way to do this I would start a liter of cranberry or orange which is less stressful as 1.080. Once that batch has gone through exponential growth and a large population of actively growing yeast exists,, 1.050 it could be added to the earlier fermentation.
* remember that oxygen is a nutrient needed to have yeast reproduce.
* 3% alcohol is not stable, you are still in a set of farming conditions where you could have a food poisoning organism. Based on the high gravity likely a mold/ fungal infection.
* I would trust the manufacturer to know what he sold. There are yeast that are in the grain alcohol industry that produce up to 22% ABV (but poor flavored). Do you have a specification sheet from the seller? Instructions? If not I would follow what other yeast producers suggest. (ex Lalvin or Renaissance or Red Star). Yeast farming is basically the same no matter what brand/ yeast selection you choose. ,,, Doing a starter with warm water is normal. Yeast need to rehydrate their cell walls before they can start reproducing.


Off topic but you have mentioned five liter a few times. What type of carboy are you using? Can you photograph? The states doesn’t have five liter food grade bottles. ,,,, We would normally use a 19 liter or 24 liter plastic pail or a Brute drum.

 

[Grape Expectations]

The bottles are just 5L spring water bottles. I have used them about 3 or 4 times now and everything's been fine... when it's orange, or orange and cranberry.

 

[Grape Expectations]

Made 4 yeast starters with Young's... little to no foam. Pitched it... no change.

Made 4 yeast starters with EC-1118... OK now I can see why people rave about this stuff! It's creating tons of foam within 15 mins of making a starter with 100ml water, 3 tsp sugar (aim: 1.050 SG) and a pinch of nutrient. If this stuff doesn't make the cranberry take off then this might be the last time I try to make cranberry wine. I think perhaps the Young's yeast just isn't suited to it. It won't ferment even though it's at 3.8 pH now.

This EC-1118 was roughly twice the price of the Young's stuff, go figure. If Young's barely foams up at all and EC-1118 foams like hell then it doesn't matter how cheap the former is, when it just doesn't work anywhere near as well. For orange it's fine but for some reason it hates cranberry.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Made 4 yeast starters with Young's... little to no foam. Pitched it... no change.

Made 4 yeast starters with EC-1118... OK now I can see why people rave about this stuff! It's creating tons of foam within 15 mins of making a starter with 100ml water, 3 tsp sugar (aim: 1.050 SG) and a pinch of nutrient. If this stuff doesn't make the cranberry take off then this might be the last time I try to make cranberry wine. I think perhaps the Young's yeast just isn't suited to it. It won't ferment even though it's at 3.8 pH now.

This EC-1118 was roughly twice the price of the Young's stuff, go figure. If Young's barely foams up at all and EC-1118 foams like hell then it doesn't matter how cheap the former is, when it just doesn't work anywhere near as well. For orange it's fine but for some reason it hates cranberry.

A packet of 1118 should be good for 5 to 6 gallons. You could eyeball half or a third per 5 liter. ,,, or weigh it like I do with larger bricks of yeast. Left over yeast stays in the fridge.

 

[Merfenter]

The first 100% cranberry juice I tried, stalled. I think I left it a month and it got to 10% ABV and just stopped managing to gain any more ABV (when the aim was for it to end up maxed out at around 18%). That was "Ocean Spray" nearing it's best before date from a warehouse that sells that sort of stuff and it had what looked like some sort of Scandinavian language on the ingredients, leading me to believe that perhaps it had potassium sorbate in and those sneaky Swedes just weren't putting it on the label (just kidding... but I mean, perhaps they simply have laws stating it's legal to not list that, I dunno).

The main reason I thought that first one stalled was "It's cranberry therefore low pH" but after testing with pH strips (made for winemaking that only have a range of 2.8 to 4.4) the original pH was perfectly fine at 3.4 pH. By this point (before getting pH strips) I had already added 1/2 tsp of bicarbonate of soda per demijohn and that brought it to 3.8 pH - which matched the pH of the orange juice that I typically had great success with, fermenting like crazy.

Why would it stall then? My only guess was, the cartons were perhaps stored badly, maybe that had frozen and thawed a few times (would it even matter?) or maybe had the sun shining on it (would it even matter?).

Now fast forward a few months and again I dared to dip my toe into the world of cranberry juice, this time using a store bought (UK) juice with the ingredients in English and "no added sugar" from Aldi. Mixing it half and half with their orange juice from concentrate, it was perhaps the best fermentation I have seen yet.

Right... that's confirmed cranberry can ferment, so I'll try 100% cranberry again, but this time instead of some nearly out-of-date Ocean Spray Swedish stuff, I will try the same Aldi stuff that fermented like crazy when mixed with their orange.

Nope, it seems the Aldi cranberry is now doing exactly what the Ocean Spray did - absolutely no action after 7 hours. Normally there's a bubble every 10 seconds by now. Yeast isn't moving around, I know already, it's stalling and is doing what the last batch of 100% cranberry juice did.

The pH was tested at 2.9 so, maybe that's not ideal, I can add a bit of bicarbonate of soda and hope for the best, but it's not looking good! Last time with the Ocean Spray stuff, I salvaged it by making an "emergency" 20L batch from orange juice to mix in with the stalled cranberry. Incidentally that was the best and smoothest wine I have ever made.

How many ways are there to salvage a stalled fermentation when you already know the pH is nearly at the ideal level and the temps are 21°C to 26°C? The best way to me was to make an emergency batch of something very dry you can mix into the stalled cranberry and pray that it's at least fermented enough that it's not to sweet when mixed with the almost completely dry wine.

Short version:
- Orange works. I've had 18% ABV in 7 days, more than once.
- Orange and cranberry (50:50) works. I've had 18% ABV in 7 days.
- Cranberry just doesn't work. It's an absolute pain.

'those sneaky swedes'....

I don't know if you figured out why the cranberry was so.. uncooperative.. but I have an idea.
It must have to do with the 'vaccinium' part in its latin name..

not that reason alone.. because swedish blueberries and others also has that... here it comes

Cranberry is Very similar to lingonberry. Its like lingonberry XL. I have read about lingonberry and wine making and I remember they have some 'preservatives built in'. I looked it up in one of my books.. I have translated what 'Harry Edelman' has written in the swedish 'Vinboken':

Lingonberry juice contains some preservatives, which cause the fermentation to often have difficulty getting started. This is easily overcome if you first prepare a small amount of juice from another fruit and add the yeast to it. When the fermentation is in full swing on the third or fourth day, the lingonberry must, only then prepared, is added.

Also.. cranberries are good agains urinary tract infection.. it probably has something to do with those preservatives.. and lingonberry so similar gives a side conclusion that both are probably similarly good cure

 

[Grape Expectations]

I don't know if you figured out why the cranberry was so.. uncooperative.

After a while I ended up thinking it's because cranberry has a natural preservative in "benzoate".

 

[Raptor99]

Cranberries, along with blueberries and ginger, have natural anti-microbial properties. So starting fermentation with them is more difficult. What I always do for my cranberry wine is use a multi-stage starter:
1. Rehydrate the yeast with GoFerm as usual at the recommended hydration temp for the yeast (usually around 95 degrees F)
2. Once that shows clear signs of fermentation (usually 30-60 minutes), add enough must to double the volume.
3. Once it is clearly fermenting again, add enough must to double the volume again (this can take 1-2 hours or longer, depending on the variety of yeast and the temperature)
4. If I am really concerned, I repeat step 3 another time.

Don't add the starter to the must until it is clearly fermenting (foam, smell, appearance). What you are doing is helping the yeast to gradually get acclimated to the hostile environment in a series of steps. Using this procedure, I have been able to get the cranberry wine going even with a pH as low as 2.8 without the need to pitch yeast a second time.