Crud or Critters?

[J-Dewey_1980]

I have two 6-gallon batches of wine I started last October. One is apple and it looks similar to what I would expect at this stage. The other is new for me which is an apple-rhubarb blend. It was also moving along fine until I racked it off the gross lees in late December. Since then, it has developed what I would call pellets of “crud” that have floated up near the head/neck (see pics). I did add k meta when I racked, but I fully dissolved that in a bit of wine before I added it, so I don’t think it’s clumps of undissolved powder. I appears it could be mold or growth of some kind? I have monitored it these past several weeks and it doesn’t seem to really get worse (nor to clear up).

So, naturally, I am questioning… Is this just residue and maybe something to do with the high pulp count of rhubarb? Is it residual yeast (maybe just wishful thinking)? Is it something more sinister that I am not seasoned enough to recognize? I am due to change out the airlocks again now, so if I should re-rack into a clean vessel and back into the carboy, I am open to that. Just looking for any clarification or experience others may have in this regard? If I have to pitch it, that would be a terrible shame, but I am more about being here to enjoy the next batch than risking it.

 

[J-Dewey_1980]

If this is helpful, I did use both pectic enzyme and yeast nutrient in the early stages. The wine should be 12.5% or so ABV.

 

[Ohio Bob]

If the last racking was December and it’s now March, it’s time to rack anyway. I would get a good turkey baster, one that collects fluid and tends not to drip any out. Suck up as much of the white as you can before racking to a clean carboy, not a bucket, that introduces too much oxygen to the wine. If you don’t have a carboy it’s highly recommended to get one.

Rack the wine and dose with Kmeta as usual. I don’t think it’s necessary to double dose, given your pictures.

Also keep the carboy well topped off. Limiting the headspace reduces the likelihood of something growing on the surface.

 

[Rice_Guy]

* What pH? I do a lot of wines with apple. There are several families of wild lactic acid bacteria which metabolize malic acid. They are a major risk at pH 3.5 and not so much at 3.2.
* fiber is heavier than wine, fiber should settle. Rhurbarb and apple fiber should present as brown where as your image is white. Is the particulate soft and mushes smoothly when rubbed between fingers?
* I wonder if you have an aerobic infection which would float at the wine~air layer and then mixed to push some of it into the neck of the carboy. What meta treatments? After going to a Pembachi seminar I am doing a double dose of meta at racking as a kill step in case there are wild lactic bacteria. Daniel’s graphic pointed out that we need less total SO2 by givin fewer but bigger doses.
* when I have had surface film, I have wiped with a paper towel > treated with meta > slowly layered a rain alcohol in the neck

 

[Raptor99]

After going to a Pembachi seminar I am doing a double dose of meta at racking as a kill step in case there are wild lactic bacteria.

I think that you have posted earlier that you do the first racking at around SG 1.010. Since the fermentation is not quite finished at that point, do you do you add any kmeta then? Do you do a double dose then? Would that inhibit the yeast from finishing?

 

[Ohio Bob]

I think that you have posted earlier that you do the first racking at around SG 1.010. Since the fermentation is not quite finished at that point, do you do you add any kmeta then? Do you do a double dose then? Would that inhibit the yeast from finishing?

I don’t see the reference to SG of 1.010 in this thread. The expected ABV of 12.5% makes me think the starting SG was not excessive and this wine is therefore dry, especially after 3 months of aging.

 

[Raptor99]

I don’t see the reference to SG of 1.010 in this thread. The expected ABV of 12.5% makes me think the starting SG was not excessive and this wine is therefore dry, especially after 3 months of aging.

That question was directed to @Rice_Guy

 

[Rice_Guy]

The graphic Daniel was using:

I run two basic scenarios.
* White juice; I will try to rack at 1.030 +/- .010. Basically I want to have active CO2 generation to flush out the carboy and remove oxygen. No I do not add meta when the wine is actively fermenting. Tom a mentor in the wine club, Instructed we should rack whites at 1.050 and incorporate some air and Fermaid O with cooling the carboy to minimize yeast stress. Life being what it is I seem to never catch 1.050 so wind up at about 1.030. When racked the wine should go under air lock. Yes I have had volcanos, ex using chocolate powder or Maurivin B yeast. ;( The wine will next be racked to get rid of gross lees and get a dose of K meta.
* Fermenting on skins or fruit pulp is run till dry. From primary it will be moved into a press with a nylon filter bag. After press juice is collected this wine will be treated with K meta and be under airlock.
other influences; I am a minimalist with racking. I try to rack off the primary, at a month, and before bottling. I have never done a barrel, I would add more meta if topping off every few weeks. I have gradually increased how much meta I add over the years, ex if I have a five gallon and a half gallon the smaller bottle will get double what the five gets.

 

[J-Dewey_1980]

I am afraid I don't have a pH measurement or a way to take one. What I can say is, using two different hydrometers, my SG was 1.083 and my reading when I racked into secondary was .991. It was dosed with K meta then and soon after the problem developed (I consider my sanitation practices to be overboard in every respect, but I understand things can happen). Based on that, assuming both readings are accurate, is there an ABV where nasties shouldn't/couldn't grow?

If the particulate is smooth, stringy, smeary, some other thing...what does that indicate? I haven't done anything with it yet to know--just want to know what I should be on the lookout for in terms of the floaties and what it could mean. I am contemplating buying a new carboy to rack it into since my only option now would be into a clean fermenting bucket, sterilize the carboy, then back into that, which I understand runs the risk of too much air and further contamination, so I likely won't do much with it until then. Once I do, should I scrub the carboy with PBC first, then sanitize after? Or just a hot rinse to remove any residue, and sanitize only?

That's all dependent on not chickening out and pitching the whole thing. I am terrified of making someone sick with a bad batch.

 

[Ohio Bob]

If you can get pH strips they are cheap and fast to use.

Your pictures look rather benign, I had a film growing on the surface and it covered the entire surface of the wine. At the next racking it tasted fine, double dosed with Kmeta and it never came back. Wine was fine there after. I wouldn’t sweat this issue.

Good protocol is to clean, then sanitize, then use. After use, clean but not sanitize. The theory, not fact but a theory, is that organisms learn to evade the sanitizer over time. So storing equipment in a sanitized state risks growing super organisms. Again, it’s a theory.

You will undoubtedly need another carboy so might as well spring for one. You won’t regret it.

Do not throw this batch away, learn what you can from it. At the next racking smell a half glass, if it smells ok, then taste it. My guess is 99.9% confidence this batch is fine. Keep notes on what it tastes like and see how it changes. Foods will smell bad if they’ve gone bad, and probably taste even worse. With even moderate pH and enough ABV that alone will kill bad things.

Take a deep breath, you’re doing fine.

 

[DrGriz]

At the very least get some pH strips, but a meter will make life so much easier. It will be very reassuring.

 

[J-Dewey_1980]

Thanks, all, for the reassurance. I have to order any wine supplies as I don't have a local vendor anymore. That said, a new carboy is on order as are pH strips (meter some day). What pH am I looking for? Is there a chart you use to determine/assess readings?

 

[J-Dewey_1980]

EDIT TO ABOVE... Based on what I read above, a pH of below 3.2 is good? Sorry--very new to pH and the indicators.

 

[DrGriz]

Without getting too much into the weeds here (someone else can do that if you want!), pH 3.0-3.4 for whites and 3.3-3.6 for reds as a target is pretty standard.

That will likely set off a discussion!

 

[ChuckD]

EDIT TO ABOVE... Based on what I read above, a pH of below 3.2 is good? Sorry--very new to pH and the indicators.

What DrGriz said.
Below 3.6 for food safety… then it’s all about taste.