1.086 on the red and 1.09 on the thompson.Thanks for the response Tom,Thompson seedless can be grown for table,wine and raisins.Table Thompsons are trellised different than the other two,table is also bunch thined,by the bunch and by the berry.Giberillic acid is used for controlled shatter and also a sizing spray.Some are also girdled.Hopefully my juice came from a non-table vineyard in wich they recieve about 160 dollars per ton from the field.So in this case when I said Table I meant maybe the wine that is set down when you eat lunch at the Basque resturant.I used some morfing Lavlin 116 from some of my other bubbling beauties.I broke down and bought a new packet yesterday of which I will use on the next one.Dig it...Upper