Does yeast selection matter for aged reds?

[JimInNJ]

The next morning a cap formed and filled most of the headspace.

 

[sour_grapes]

The next morning a cap formed and filled most of the headspace.

Oh, I totally apologize. I thought those pics were from AFTER most of the fermentation had taken place. I did not pick up that these were the vessels for primary fermentation. Ignore my comment and move on!

 

[Ajmassa]

Heard a podcast talking about this exact topic. The host’s opinion was that no, yeast selection does NOT matter for ages reds. Namely big reds that are barrel aged for 20+ months.
Said that the characteristics gained from yeast are noticeable early, but after barrel aging for some time those aspects fade and the wines natural tannin/profile take its place.
He made sure to stress he was referring to big bold reds. (Keep in mind it was a Napa Cab winemaker)

 

[Maynard123]

2017 was the second year for my little vineyard, so I only allowed a very few clusters to ripen, and harvested enough grapes to make 1/2 gallon total as a field blend. Most of the Dornfelder was lost to bird damage

I have learned something this year about birds quite by accident. Last year I had quite a bit of trouble with them getting my grapes as they would ripen so. However this year my wife put up three bird feeders and kept them full each day and I didn't get any bird damage. I only have two rows of vines so maybe it will only work on a small scale but I will be supporting the buying of bird seed next year.

 

[Maynard123]

To weigh in on the yeast question one factor to consider is how dry you want the wine to be, some will ferment more of the sugars out for example Pasture Red VS a Champagne yeast. It depends on what you are trying to achieve.

 

[JimInNJ]

This year I thought my primary avian foe was a catbird, who wasn't much interested in the feeders. He was giving me quite a scolding while I was working on the netting. Then my buddy saw a squirrel run up a trunk behind me and go to town on the berries. We fastened the netting close around every trunk and post, but the next day I found a squirrel sized hole gnawed through. That night there was an electric fence fully armed and operational. And it actually appears to have worked.

 

[JimInNJ]

I can totally see yeast characteristics in a big red being overwhelmed after two years in oak.

My plan is to divert a couple bottles of each before the remainder is blended and oaked, and do side-by-side tastings of the unoaked samples at the one and two year marks.

Given the small volumes I have to work with, these will probably be 375ml bottles. I hope to do the same thing with my Syrah and Cab Franc with slightly different yeast choices, assuming enough survives to harvest. Further along the process some of the blend will be divided again for an oak comparison experiment.

I've already learned something from this experiment: that it is a lot of extra work.

 

[Ajmassa]

For a small 2nd or 3rd year(?) harvest I think this is kinda perfect. Experiment your ass off now and find which direction you’d like to take later.
Is 2019 expected to harvest decent volume for ya?

 

[JimInNJ]

This is 3rd year. Last year I only allowed a couple bunches per vine to ripen, and the wildlife (and ensuing sour rot) got most of the Dornfelder before I got the netting up, so we used the rest of that as table grapes. The Syrah and Cab Franc, together with a bit of Dornfelder second crop, made me a half gallon of wine.

The Dornfelder is four plants, totaling 26 feet of trellis. I got three galllons this year, and it would have been at least four if not for the squirrels.

Syrah set a good crop, but had a lot of insect damage this year. Will see how much is good in two or three weeks when it is ripe. Cab Franc looks like it wants to wait for November.

The plants are getting established, and I'm learing as much as I can, so hopefully a full harvest next year.

 

[JimInNJ]

Is there really much difference in FG between something like Pasture Red VS a Champagne yeast, or is it mostly a matter of other compounds generated by some yeasts producing a greater impression of body and sweetness. I don't think I've ever seen attenuation numbers published for wine yeast the way they are for ale yeasts.

 

[sour_grapes]

Is there really much difference in FG between something like Pasture Red VS a Champagne yeast, or is it mostly a matter of other compounds generated by some yeasts producing a greater impression of body and sweetness. I don't think I've ever seen attenuation numbers published for wine yeast the way they are for ale yeasts.

Pretty much all wine yeasts will take a not-unreasonably-high-initial-gravity must to dry. Some are not rated to survive above ~14%. Pasteur Red is rated to 16% tolerance.

 

[JimInNJ]

I now also have Syrah split between D80 and Clos, and Cab Franc split between BDX and Pasteur Red. Will update in a year or two. ;-)

 

[mainshipfred]

My Cab Franc has D254, D47 and BM 4X4 and turned out wonderful after press. The Syrah I used CLOS, Syrah and Rhone 4600. But you're a better man then me. My update will be 1 year.

 

[Tom Martin]

I think if you are using exclusively EC1118 (as supplied in most kits) then there are definite advantages to going to a yeast designed for Reds such as RC212 or BM4x4. I notice a difference when switching out the EC1118 and really it is only included in kits because it is foolproof.

Whether I could taste the difference between BM4x4 and RC212 I am not so sure.

Which do you prefer over the EC-1118 the BM4x4 or RC212 if you could only get one? Mainly I am making Red Blends, Cabs, Malbecs etc

 

[sour_grapes]

Of those, I would pick D254