WineXpert Eclipse Stags Leap Merlot

[jgmann67]

Every taste should be its own little victory.

 

[colorado_wade]

I'm considering this kit. I'm just curious if anyone has compared an aged bottle of this kit with an actual stags leap merlot of similar age to see how similar it is.

Thanks,
Wade

 

[sour_grapes]

I'm considering this kit. I'm just curious if anyone has compared an aged bottle of this kit with an actual stags leap merlot of similar age to see how similar it is.

Thanks,
Wade

By "actual," do you mean "commercial"?

 

[jgmann67]

I don't know if I'd compare based on age. Wines tend to mature on their own schedule, not ours. And, kits will mature faster than commercial wines. So, I'd say find two Merlots in their prime and have at it.

Here's what I know - this is our favorite kit so far. It drinks very well; with the nose, body and palate of a quality commercial Merlot. For $4 a bottle (for the wine, label, capsule), it is an absolute no-brainer in my book.

 

[Boatboy24]

I'm considering this kit. I'm just curious if anyone has compared an aged bottle of this kit with an actual stags leap merlot of similar age to see how similar it is.

Thanks,
Wade

I haven't, but I'd guess there's no comparison. You're talking a $5 bottle of wine vs. something that (from what I've seen) goes from $35 on up.

 

[AZMDTed]

I haven't, but I'd guess there's no comparison. You're talking a $5 bottle of wine vs. something that (from what I've seen) goes from $35 on up.

Jim,

I'm not sure that $5 v $35 as a sole way to compare a kit wine with a commercial wine is fair. Yes, an Eclipse kit works out to about $5 a bottle for purchase, shipping, cork, foil, etc but while it's not truly a wholesale cost of the wine, it's not the 'retail' cost or value either. The retail cost of a commercial wine has similar expenses, but it will also include labor, insurance, storage costs to age for a year or two and retail mark up of the wine. Not to mention any premium for the reputation of the winery that is added. Kit winemakers absorb the cost of storage and have no retail markup so a strict dollar comparison seems skewed to me.

 

[Boatboy24]

Jim,

I'm not sure that $5 v $35 as a sole way to compare a kit wine with a commercial wine is fair. Yes, an Eclipse kit works out to about $5 a bottle for purchase, shipping, cork, foil, etc but while it's not truly a wholesale cost of the wine, it's not the 'retail' cost or value either. The retail cost of a commercial wine has similar expenses, but it will also include labor, insurance, storage costs to age for a year or two and retail mark up of the wine. Not to mention any premium for the reputation of the winery that is added. Kit winemakers absorb the cost of storage and have no retail markup so a strict dollar comparison seems skewed to me.

Good point. While the winemakers cost is only around $5/bottle for the kit, I think it produces a wine of significantly greater value. Mine is not yet two years old and it is very, very good. And yes, price alone is no way at all to compare wines. But I think (again, I haven't sat down and done it myself) if you compared the Eclipse Kit to an actual Stags Leap Merlot, it wouldn't be a close race.

 

[Johnd]

Good point. While the winemakers cost is only around $5/bottle for the kit, I think it produces a wine of significantly greater value. Mine is not yet two years old and it is very, very good. And yes, price alone is no way at all to compare wines. But I think (again, I haven't sat down and done it myself) if you compared the Eclipse Kit to an actual Stags Leap Merlot, it wouldn't be a close race.

And that's not a bad thing, it's just a factor of the way wine is produced from kits vs in a winery. Making wine from grapes which have been pressed and had the juice removed from the skins, coloring/concentrate added to compensate, pasteurized and stabilized for shelf storage, IMHO, just won't compete with the real thing. Wines crushed and fermented with their own skins, extracting all of the colors, tannins and organoleptic goodies naturally, will just be better. That doesn't mean that our kit wines aren't good, but we do start with an inherent deficit, that's where our opportunity begins, adding tannins, skins, etc. to boost the deficits as best we can.

I'd hazard to say that if you had 500 lbs of grapes and made wine traditionally with one half and kits with the other half, same winemaker, same environmental conditions, same yeast, etc., the grape wine would beat the kit wine every time. But a good quality kit, like the SL Merlot, is better than lots of inexpensive Merlots that I have purchased in a store.

Hence, when doing the reds, take the opportunity to "get the good stuff", more juice, less water to add, grape packs, qood quality oak or barrels, and don't be afraid to tinker a little to enhance things where you know the deficits are. The SL Merlot is a wonderful kit, one of my favorites, and I plan to continue to make a couple every year.

 

[colorado_wade]

Sorry guys, after reading your responses, I realized how poorly my question was presented. I've had commercial Stags Leap Merlot on multiple occasions, and think it's delicious (2012 Stag's Leap Petite Sirah is really spectacular). I was really just wondering, for those of you who have had the kit version, if it's at all a similar wine drinking experience. I understand the speculation, and price comparisons and all those comparisons between a kit and commercially produced wine. But for those of you who have actually tasted both the kit, and the commercial version, is there a huge difference between them?

Cheers!

Wade

 

[geek]

Paul, can't wait to see your taste results at a 1 year mark.

 

[Brian55]

Sorry guys, after reading your responses, I realized how poorly my question was presented. I've had commercial Stags Leap Merlot on multiple occasions, and think it's delicious (2012 Stag's Leap Petite Sirah is really spectacular). I was really just wondering, for those of you who have had the kit version, if it's at all a similar wine drinking experience. I understand the speculation, and price comparisons and all those comparisons between a kit and commercially produced wine. But for those of you who have actually tasted both the kit, and the commercial version, is there a huge difference between them?

Cheers!

Wade

There is going to be quite a difference between them. The kit will not have the aromas to compete with any "better" commercial bottle. Nor will it be likely to have a similar flavor profile. While some of the better kits can be close to, or just as good in the flavor dept, they still tend to be just plain different than commercial wines.

 

[Grabo]

I just started this kit on Friday, due in part to this thread. It is my first "big red" so I am excited to see how it turns out, and I plan to follow the directions. Merlot is popular in my family, so I will be making a lot of it, and will have plenty of chances to tweak in the future.

I have not purchased a kit that contained wine skins before, but the skins seemed like a pain to get out. I followed the directions: cut a corner of the bag and squeeze out into the straining bag, but the skins didn't like to move toward the bag opening, so I spent a lot of time trying to push the skins to the opening I cut. I eventually just kept cutting the hole larger and scraped/squeezed until I got out as much as I could. Any recommendations on getting the skins out for future kits?

Yeast: EC-1118
Starting temp: 72F
SG: 1.080

I didn't measure the SG again after the skins had time to soak in the must because we were gone most of the weekend. When I came back on Sunday, the yeast was happily fermenting away and the skins bag was floating.

 

[David219]

What I do is keep some water back from addition to the primary when diluting to volume prior to adding the skins. Sanitize a large glass mixing bowl, and stretch the muslin bag over it. Get as many of the skins into the bag from the pouch, then rinse out the pouch into the bag and bowl with the held back volume of water. When all the skins are out, tie off the bag and place it in the primary. Then there will be water...rich in skins jammy juice...in the bowl. Dump that water into the primary and proceed from there.

 

[AZMDTed]

What I do is keep some water back from addition to the primary when diluting to volume prior to adding the skins. Sanitize a large glass mixing bowl, and stretch the muslin bag over it. Get as many of the skins into the bag from the pouch, then rinse out the pouch into the bag and bowl with the held back volume of water. When all the skins are out, tie off the bag and place it in the primary. Then there will be water...rich in skins jammy juice...in the bowl. Dump that water into the primary and proceed from there.

Yep, that's what I do too. Works well. And, making the hole pretty big to begin with.

 

[wineh]

. Any recommendations on getting the skins out for future kits?

I use a hamburger spatula. Lay the bag on the counter and use the edge of the spatula to squeeze the skins and seeds towards the hole you cut in the corner. Usually 2 or 3 tries and the bag is quite clean. I put the corner that I cut from the bag under the cut corner to keep the open edge of the bag from contacting the counter, or spilling any good stuff. Don't forget to sanitize the skinny end of a spoon, take the cap off the bag, and remove the little ball of skins in there too!

 

[Grabo]

Thanks for the recommendations! I used water to rinse out the rest of the skins, but I was skimpy on the water to avoid lowering my SG too much since it was an afterthought.

Also good call on the skins inside the cap. I didn't even consider that, so I'll have to make a note for next time. I lost a few skins from my curiousity tasting anyway, so I'm not too worried

Edit: I almost forgot my obligatory bucket photo.

 

[jumby]

I soak my skins bag in a pot of hot water for about a hour or so before transferring them. That softens them up and makes it easier to get them out.

I just started this kit on Friday, due in part to this thread. It is my first "big red" so I am excited to see how it turns out, and I plan to follow the directions. Merlot is popular in my family, so I will be making a lot of it, and will have plenty of chances to tweak in the future.

I have not purchased a kit that contained wine skins before, but the skins seemed like a pain to get out. I followed the directions: cut a corner of the bag and squeeze out into the straining bag, but the skins didn't like to move toward the bag opening, so I spent a lot of time trying to push the skins to the opening I cut. I eventually just kept cutting the hole larger and scraped/squeezed until I got out as much as I could. Any recommendations on getting the skins out for future kits?

Yeast: EC-1118
Starting temp: 72F
SG: 1.080

I didn't measure the SG again after the skins had time to soak in the must because we were gone most of the weekend. When I came back on Sunday, the yeast was happily fermenting away and the skins bag was floating.

 

[Boatboy24]

I soak my skins bag in a pot of hot water for about a hour or so before transferring them. That softens them up and makes it easier to get them out.

I'm gonna give that a try. Thanks for the tip!

 

[jgmann67]

One year anniversary coming up in 9 days. My brother is coming out to start an Argentinian Malbec on his first foray into kit winemaking (and maybe a Zin, too). We're definitely going to open a Merlot to drink while we start the other two.

I may want to start another Eclipse Merlot, too... dangit - already talking about breaking my own limit on wine kits for this year. Maybe 8 kits isn't enough afterall.

 

[Dhaynes]

Just bottled mine this past weekend. Also bottled a VR merlot kit that I started 10 days after the Eclipse kit. I saved the skins for the Eclipse kit and added them to the VR. I figured they were pretty used up at that point but it couldn't hurt. Started both kits in March last year so they are almost exactly a year old. I was actually disappointed at how harsh both kits were still. I'm hoping another 6-12 months in the bottle will smooth them out.