WineXpert Eclipse Stags Leap Merlot

[jgmann67]

I've done several kits with oak cubes. Never had a single cube sink... Not even after soaking for 6 weeks..

Really? Okay, there's two things I learned tonight.

 

[jgmann67]

Two weeks (plus) on oak and I already LOVE this wine.

 

[scram]

Bet your oak is still floating too

 

[jgmann67]

Yes it is!

 

[jgmann67]

Survey question - keep it on the oak for the whole three months? It's been soaking for about a month now.

 

[Brian55]

Survey question - keep it on the oak for the whole three months? It's been soaking for about a month now.

Yes,keep it on the oak.

 

[scram]

Agree... Let it soak

 

[GaDawg]

My favorite kit! I don't think it is a bad thing to keep it on the oak, but after about 6 weeks the oak has given up about all it has.

 

[jgmann67]

Okay. 3 months on oak it is. Rack, dose and bottle. Then... We wait.

 

[jgmann67]

It's been about a month and a half on the oak now. I'm due for another taste this week (probably tonight, now that I'm thinking about it). Racking off the oak and a vigorous degas is due in late August. But this is, like the Cab was, already fairly clear and degassed by 1.5 months in storage.

 

[Boatboy24]

It's been about a month and a half on the oak now. I'm due for another taste this week (probably tonight, now that I'm thinking about it). Racking off the oak and a vigorous degas is due in late August. But this is, like the Cab was, already fairly clear and degassed by 1.5 months in storage.

Maybe I'll join you. Mine's about a year old now, and ready for bottling (assuming a final taste test goes well). It came out of the barrel about a month ago. Last time I tasted it, it was REALLY good.

Edit: Yep, it's pretty effing great. Never thought I'd describe a Merlot this way, but this one is powerful. Tons of fruit and oak, with good tannin and acid to balance it out. I added 1 tsp of tannin to the secondary and only used 60 of the 90g of American oak that was included during clearing/aging. Then it spent 14 weeks in the 23 liter Vadai (pretty much neutral at that point). It's ready to bottle, but I'm debating a touch more tannin. I know the fruit and oak are going to integrate and fall back a bit, so I'm not sure. Even as it is today, it's great. Only 11 months old too. Can't wait to see this one at 18 months.

 

[ceeaton]

Maybe I'll join you. Mine's about a year old now, and ready for bottling (assuming a final taste test goes well). It came out of the barrel about a month ago. Last time I tasted it, it was REALLY good.

Probably a stupid question, but sometimes I ask them. How do you know when to take it off the oak? Is it just something that you have to get experience doing? For example, Boatboy Jim, you said it tasted really great after it came out of the barrel. I know that people have said that the oak taste gets more integrated (and somewhat lessens) over time in the bottle. If it tastes great after it is removed from the oak, will it be less than great after it is in the bottle, for say a year? As a new winemaker should I push the oak taste a little further than I like, knowing that it will lessen a little with aging to help build up my experience?

Thanks for any insight and knowledge you can give me from an experienced winemaker like yourself.

 

[Boatboy24]

Craig:

In short, you've got it right. Since the oak will fall back a little over time, "a little too much is just enough". In the case of this Merlot, it came with 90g of oak cubes (which is a lot). I used 60g. I then put the wine into the barrel for a few months. At that point, the barrel was over 2 years old and considered 'neutral'. In other words, it is no longer giving off any oak flavor. But the micro-oxidation and concentration benefits continue.

When I said it tastes really great, I mean it tastes really great. But I know the oak is still a tad strong. Knowing it'll fade a bit more, I take that into account. I think it's great today. But I think it'll be 'more great' as the oak continues to integrate. Over time, you start to get a sense for what's enough and what's too much, based on your taste.

Hope that helps.

 

[ceeaton]

Jim, helps alot. Thanks for your detailed answer. Just trying to rush the experience thing and go right to the knowledge part. I took up this hobby to improve my patience, but it hasn't worked yet.

Some things just take time, including wine. Just one of the basic facts of life. I have a few oaked reds that I just bottled and will have to taste them and get an idea of how the oak integration changes the overall taste over time. Hopefully by this time next year I'll have somewhat of a handle on it. Until then, the three P's.

Thanks again!

 

[jgmann67]

With the trouble I've had degassing, I'm starting to think that maybe longer in the carboy is better.

 

[ceeaton]

With the trouble I've had degassing, I'm starting to think that maybe longer in the carboy is better.

Jim (jgmann), I was using a drill mounted cane to degass the snot out of it, but then I'd bottle a few days afterwards. When I searched on "brake bleed" I got an old 2008 thread that had a comment about waiting at least a few weeks after using a drill mounted degasser, not a few days. I think that is where I may have gone wrong on a Viognier I bottled in the spring.

I haven't sampled yet so I pulled on out and have been chilling it this afternoon and plan on sampling a few glasses, then doing the poof test on the remainder in the bottle. May have to uncork and degass again when I get my brake bleeder kit tomorrow at Autozone or Pep Boys or wherever.

Have no problems of any recently bottled batches which were left at a higher temp in the carboy for a longer time after degassing. Live and learn.

 

[jgmann67]

Jim (jgmann), I was using a drill mounted cane to degass the snot out of it, but then I'd bottle a few days afterwards. When I searched on "brake bleed" I got an old 2008 thread that had a comment about waiting at least a few weeks after using a drill mounted degasser, not a few days. I think that is where I may have gone wrong on a Viognier I bottled in the spring.

I haven't sampled yet so I pulled on out and have been chilling it this afternoon and plan on sampling a few glasses, then doing the poof test on the remainder in the bottle. May have to uncork and degass again when I get my brake bleeder kit tomorrow at Autozone or Pep Boys or wherever.

Have no problems of any recently bottled batches which were left at a higher temp in the carboy for a longer time after degassing. Live and learn.

This is what I've done -

* uncork and pour a glass.
* taste.
* If the wine isn't "there," I shake the bottle for a second or two and 'look-n-listen'. If there's a big poof and a good bit of foam, I agitate the bottle until the poof is nominal (about the same as it would be for the same container of water).

THEN

* put a wine saver plug in the bottle and pull some air out of the bottle, then put it back in the fridge for about a half hour to an hour.
* if the wine is noticeably better when you open it up a second time, yep... You got gas.

***

When I put the wine back into the Carboy, I put all the bottles on the table and uncork all of them. Then, carefully pour then wine back, using a larger funnel. Try to minimize the headspace in the Carboy if possible (pulling 20-25" of vacuum with 5.55 gallons of wine in a 6.2 gallon glass Carboy is a lot of work).

This is from Jim (BB24): Have some decent padding under your Carboy. Once you get to the desired vacuum, rock your wine a bit. Don't go nuts, just agitate and swirl like it's a giant glass of wine. Bring the vacuum back up and repeat until you're done.

 

[jgmann67]

A taste of the Merlot tonight. Pleasing, but the body isn't exactly how I'd like it, though. Thin mouthfeel.

It's still on the oak cubes and I have another 4 weeks till I rack it again.

I'm likely to follow the directions and just bulk age in another 3 months. But, I'm always open to any suggestions.

 

[sour_grapes]

A taste of the Merlot tonight. Pleasing, but the body isn't exactly how I'd like it, though. Thin mouthfeel.

It's still on the oak cubes and I have another 4 weeks till I rack it again.

I'm likely to follow the directions and just bulk age in another 3 months. But, I'm always open to any suggestions.

I opted to add 2.5 g Tannin Riche Extra to mine. I cannot report on the result yet. I am supposed to bottle this soon, within a few weeks, and should be able to report at that time.

 

[GaDawg]

On the question of oak. I am of the opinion that oak is a finite ingredient. If I add 60g or 90g after about 6 weeks it has given up all it has to give. I could let it set on the oak cubes another 6 mo. and what it would add would be negligible.