Elementary school shooting

[tatud4life]

Well, personnally I am glad he took his own life! Right now he is facing all those baby angels, whose lives he shorten and God's anger.

I highly doubt that they angels that he is facing at this moment. I would venture to say that he is a little south of that. And I mean no disrespect by my statement either. I just do not see a person that would take the life of an innocent child going anywhere but down. Even that is much better than he deserves.

 

[UBB]

This resonated with me so I decided to share:

"Before the shell casings have even been logged into evidence and the bodies laid to rest, this act of pure evil has opened the flood gates for the uneducated masses to voice their emotional and baseless opinions.

Violence is a part of nature.
No creature on this earth is exempt from it. Violence has shaped human society since the dawn of man and only people who have accepted this fact and prepared to meet evil with force have ever stopped it.

If you are one of the many who are commenting about this awful day- be outraged.

Be outraged that it happened and that those that could have stopped it were bound by the same laws that were violated to cause it. Be outraged that you were by definition considered equals with the scum that did this by lawmakers who are all to happy to place you like fish in a barrel by putting you and your loved ones in areas with no legal protection while they surround themselves with security.

Be outraged if you lack the ability to comprehend that nothing good has ever come by disarming good people.

Be outraged if you lack the mental and emotional fortitude to defend yourselves and your loved ones and would demand the disarming of those who would keep you and your right to be fodder safe.

Evil Exists. Be prepared to meet it or prepare to bow down to it."

 

[Julie]

Oh I agree, I feel that before God sends him south, he will have a meeting with him!

 

[GreginND]

I have been staying out of the debates and have had a hard time even talking about this tragedy.

But I do think the time to talk about the problem of violence in our community is way late. The problem is we can't even start a conversation because every time there is a tragedy there is a political call not to talk about guns or what we as a society want. I don't know how I feel about gun control and have always supported the 2nd amendment. But I will just throw out some facts for people to consider.

15 of the 24 worst mass shootings of this type have occurred in America.

There is no correlation between the number of guns in civilian hands with these kind of tragedies. Look at Switzerland, for example. They have a high number of guns per capita.

There is a correlation between tighter controls and education with reduced shootings like this. Tighter sensible controls does not equal bans.

75% of NRA members favor a criminal background check to purchase a gun. 71% of NRA members support banning gun sales to people on the terrorist watch list. Neither of these controls are in place in America and the NRA vehemently opposes any suggestion to do so.

Mental health is largely neglected in our health insurance system.

IMHO, we can do better and we can do it while protecting gun rights. But we never will until we can talk about it without the politics and lobbying.

 

[Runningwolf]

OK MY TURN....What in the hell am I doing with all of this wine I'm making? I'm have a blast making it, but not sure if I'm of sound mind. I don't even hardly drink much. Probably have an ultierior motive for the future but none of us know what it is. No problem, the law/media will make something up when I get busted for jay walking drunk some night and look in my cellar.

 

[roadpupp]

<flame suit on>
I guess I have trouble with the second amendment in that we haven't quelled any tyrannical governments in 200 years with the public militia we
are supposed to be arming with the second amendment. What we do have is a staggeringly high number of gun deaths compared to other countries. They all have the same video games as we have, the same violent films. What they don't have is easy access to handguns. What else separates us? I am honestly interested.

The UK had something g like 8 gun deaths last year. Japan under 50. Germany under 50. The US had over 10,000. Even adjusting for population it is a clear indicator that the US has a problem that hasn't been dealt with.

Don't believe as some have said that the mentally ill man in Newtown would have been able to harm as many people if he didn't have handguns and tons of ammo. No matter how motivated, a knife or an axe or even gasoline wouldn't have been as lethal. Someone would have stopped him sooner.

I also believe that our attitudes and lack of care for mentally ill people needs to change. I won't touch the health care issue but that is something that the countries with low gun deaths also have in common. Accessible health care including mental health care for all.

I am tired of reading about such tragedies and I don't see the NRA offering answers. I'm just suggesting that maybe we should try some new tactics to fix this huge problem. Better mental health care and tighter restrictions on handguns, ammo and assault weapons would be a start.

I respect others opinions on this. I just don't think arming everyone is a viable solution. Looser gun laws seems like we would be heading in the wrong direction from the proven strategies that work in other countries.

I'm really shaken by this. My wife is a teacher a few towns away from where this happened and my daughter is in Kindergarten. So close to home and I can't imagine the misery so many relatives and friends if the killed.

I do think this is the right time for this discussion. If not now, when?
Respectfully
Chad

 

[g8keeper]

OK MY TURN....What in the hell am I doing with all of this wine I'm making? I'm have a blast making it, but not sure if I'm of sound mind. I don't even hardly drink much. Probably have an ultierior motive for the future but none of us know what it is. No problem, the law/media will make something up when I get busted for jay walking drunk some night and look in my cellar.

lol....thank you, dan....i think that tad bit of comic relief is exactly what this thread needed right about now.....you da man...lol...

 

[BobR]

And AMEN Julie, but it was nice to see that police sniper there with his 308 rifle.....just in case.

 

[UBB]

75% of NRA members favor a criminal background check to purchase a gun. 71% of NRA members support banning gun sales to people on the terrorist watch list. Neither of these controls are in place in America .

Not entirely accurate. With a few exceptions every commercially sold firearm the buyer is subjected to the FBI NICS.

 

[TonyP]

If not now, when? Unfortunately, this is the time to discuss these issues because otherwise they don't get discussed.

December 11th Clackamas Town Cener, Happy Valley, Oregon - 2 killed

August 5th - Sikh Temple, Oak Creek, Wisconsin - 7 killed

July 20th - Town Center, Aurora, Colorado - 12 killed

May 30th - Seattle Cafe, Washington - 6 killed

April 2nd - Oikos University - Oakland, California - 7 killed

Is anyone really opposed to reasonable gun control?

 

[GreginND]

Not entirely accurate. With a few exceptions every commercially sold firearm the buyer is subjected to the FBI NICS.

But about 40% of guns are sold by individuals without background checks. Only licensed dealers are required to do a background check before a sale.

 

[Julie]

This is NOT the place to dicuss this!!!!!!!!!!!! If this continues I will lock down the thread so no one can post. Seriously, the last thing we should be doing is getting into a debate!

 

[BobR]

I am not saying there is a direct cause-effect relationship here, but I wonder if anyone has ever at least studied the rise of gratuitous violence in motion picture films compared to films from the 30's, 40's, 50's and early 60's? I remember in "the olden days" people were shot or stabbed in movies but it was not at all graphic. Then, Sam Peckinpah came along with 6 gallons of blood in every scene in movies and now on TV and we started to see these mass murders. Could they be related? I don't know but I am asking, has anyone looked at this? A second concern I have are these games that my Grandchildren play over and over which are nothing but killing people by many means. They are very graphic and my concern is we may be programming our children with them.

For the first half of my life, the only mass murder I can remember was that of Richard Speck who murdered 8 nurses in Chicago in 1966 by strangulation or stabbing. Since then, we have had a number of school shootings, mall shootings, restaurant shootings, etc. conicidental with the rise of violence in movies, TV and games. Post hoc ergo propter hoc or is there something there?

Yes Rocky there are studies that show the connection. Search Lt. Dave Grossman U.S.Army ret. He has written two books on the subject and has studied shootings all over the world. He does not allow his grandchildren to watch TV as we know it today. I will be attending his training class early next year.

 

[g8keeper]

This is NOT the place to dicuss this!!!!!!!!!!!! If this continues I will lock down the thread so no one can post. Seriously, the last thing we should be doing is getting into a debate!

i said it as well, julie....could not agree with you more...all i wanted to do was express my sympathy and grief for the victims and their families....

 

[UBB]

Is anyone really opposed to reasonable gun control?

It could be argued that we already have 'reasonable' gun control and it doesn't work. Again, you can't legislate the crazy out of people. If someone is intent on harming a bunch of people they will always find a way.

Yesterday a mentally ill man in China walked into a school and attacked 20 some kids with a knife. By the grace of God no one was killed but the fact remains he was able to harm these kids with ONE KNIFE! Someone who is intent on harming a bunch of people will always find a way.

 

[UBB]

But about 40% of guns are sold by individuals without background checks. Only licensed dealers are required to do a background check before a sale.

which is why I quantified my response with 'commercially sold' firearms. I do have doubts about your statistics though.

 

[TonyP]

As for TonyP, you are what we call the sheep. When the wolf shows up and threatens you and your flock, you hope that the sheep dog will come to your rescue. TonyP, I was the sheep dog and I got sick of protecting those who did absolutely nothing to protect themselves.

Bob, most of what you say is ranting, but I'll comment on this nonsense. I was never a cop, but several are my friends. I'm certain from numerous conversations with them any cop knows their job is only rarely to protect people in the way you say it. Most cops are hopeful when responding to a call that everyone isn't armed - not the other way around. I'm surprised that after being a cop you don't know what police do.

 

[g8keeper]

once again, i can only say that a tragedy of this magnetude could spark sooooo many debates on sooooo many levels.....gun control....nature of man....quality of health/mental health care in this country.....violence in movies and tv....as well as child rearing.....security in our schools....level of police protection...bottom line: this was a tragic event, and right now we should just reflect on it, send our sympathy, and for the rest of us that also have young ones, thank the lord that we have not had to face something like this....at least let the ashes cool a little before we start the debates....

 

[UBB]

once again, i can only say that a tragedy of this magnetude could spark sooooo many debates on sooooo many levels.....gun control....nature of man....quality of health/mental health care in this country.....violence in movies and tv....as well as child rearing.....security in our schools....level of police protection...bottom line: this was a tragic event, and right now we should just reflect on it, send our sympathy, and for the rest of us that also have young ones, thank the lord that we have not had to face something like this....at least let the ashes cool a little before we start the debates....

I disagree. If we didn't have discussions about important issues every time something terrible happens it'd be really quiet. The trick is to try and have a reasonable discussion. I know I'm not always that good at it, but I'm trying.

 

[g8keeper]

I disagree. If we didn't have discussions about important issues every time something terrible happens it'd be really quiet. The trick is to try and have a reasonable discussion. I know I'm not always that good at it, but I'm trying.

i will admit, one thing you just said i agree with....REASONABLE...butfrom some of the posts, it seems some have gotten a little heated, and border on personal attacks....not saying they ARE personal, but are walking a thin line....i just feel that maybe a few days afterwards would be more appropriate....but this is reinforcing one of my philosophies: that man is apparently a bit argumentative, and aggressive, by nature....lol...and in the immortal words of forrest gump, "that's all i have to say about that"......lol...