RJ Spagnols En Primeur Winery Series - Italian Amarone Style

[silverbullet07]

I am getting ready to start my first En Primeur Winery Series - Italian Amarone Style kit. Is there any recommendations I should do different or just follow the kit instructions this first time?

 

[Khristyjeff]

I think it's fantastic as written, however next time I'm going to follow @cmason1957 instructions. I'll reprint his info here and he can add any additional comments.
@cmason1957 wrote:
"I bulk age everything for at least six months, Amarone longer. The kit comes with some oak chips for use during primary. I also add about one tablespoon of tannin per 6 gallon kit and then one winestix French oak Medium toast for however long I bulk age. Finally, at least another year or more in the bottle before drinking."

 

[cmason1957]

Nothing more to add. That's what I do. YMMV. Feel free to tell me I am of my rocker. If it's always a possibility.

 

[silverbullet07]

Would this kit benefit by adding some yeast nutrient 48 hours after fermentation begins? The kit does not call for it but I generally add some nutrients 48-72 hours into fermentation. Or just follow the instructions?

 

[Brian55]

Would this kit benefit by adding some yeast nutrient 48 hours after fermentation begins? The kit does not call for it but I generally add some nutrients 48-72 hours into fermentation. Or just follow the instructions?

Certainly wouldn't hurt. Consider an EM as well, extracting more from those skins.

 

[silverbullet07]

What’s a EM?

 

[Brian55]

What’s a EM?

Extended Maceration- once it's fermented dry, leave the skins and wine in primary for an extended amount of time. I would recommend 2 weeks.

 

[silverbullet07]

Gotcha. Thanks!

 

[cmason1957]

Would this kit benefit by adding some yeast nutrient 48 hours after fermentation begins? The kit does not call for it but I generally add some nutrients 48-72 hours into fermentation. Or just follow the instructions?

If you are using the included yeast, then I would not add extra yeast nutrients. There are plenty for the wine to be made. If you changed up the yeast, then, depending on what you changed to yeast nutrients may be called for. I haven't done EM on an Amarone kit, so I can't help with that part.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

If it were mine, I would add some Opti Red, an Enzyme (Color Pro or Llalzyme EX-V) and FT Rouge tannin to primary. Then do a 6 week EM on the skins.

 

[silverbullet07]

Extended Maceration- once it's fermented dry, leave the skins and wine in primary for an extended amount of time. I would recommend 2 weeks.

If it were mine, I would add some Opti Red, an Enzyme (Color Pro or Llalzyme EX-V) and FT Rouge tannin to primary. Then do a 6 week EM on the skins.

When you do an EM do you need to rack the wine off of the yeast or just close up the primary with air lock and let it sit for those 2-6 weeks?

Normally I would close up the primary around 1.020 and not stir any more for 7-10 days. Then check the sg to see if it is below .998.

For the EM, just close it back up at that time and let it ride out another 2-6 weeks leaving everything in the bucket?

 

[cmason1957]

I would not do an EM in a bucket. At least not one of anything over about 3 weeks. It is recommended that they be done in something like a big mouth bubbler. The surface area exposed to oxygen is much greater in a bucket. But, yes the technique is close it up and let it ride, stirring everything gently once or twice a week. Stirring isn't the right word, it's more like agitation of the carboy.

 

[silverbullet07]

So just to understand.

My primary is a 7.9 gal fermenter bucket with a tight fitting lid with a couple inches of head space with all the raisins, oak, and grape skins added. Seems air tight when I add the airlock and it bubbles nicely.

To do a 2-5 week EM, I need to rack to a 6.5 gal bubbler leaving the yeast, raisins and oak behind. Move the grape skins to the big mouth bubbler and then close up with air lock. Open a couple times a week to move the skins around.

I can get the big mouth if you think I should do the em in it vs the 7.9 primary and is needed.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

@silverbullet07 I use many fermenters, 7.9 gallon buckets, BMB's and Spiedel's and have never had an issue with an EM in my buckets (and have gone as long as 8 weeks). Just make sure they are in good condition and still holding a seal. If I read his post right, I would disagree with CMason1957, and would strongly advise you to NOT open the bucket during this EM time time as stirring is not needed. Opening to stir after you hit 1.02 and seal it is just asking for issues IMO. Just let it sit untouched for the full 8 weeks.

 

[silverbullet07]

@She’sgonnakillme
Good news..thanks I thought if it would hold a good seal the co2 inside should protect it.

 

[cmason1957]

@She’sgonnakillme I probably didn't express myself well (it's the engineer - ADHD in me) I agree, don't open the vessel after you seal it off for EM. But I do think you need to agitate it somehow. For me, that involved just shaking it to keep whatever got pushed up by the CO2 coming up, submerged somewhat. I have never done an EM in a bucket, do to the expanded surface area, but if folks have and it works out, more power to them.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Gotcha CMason1957, But, In theory the size of headspace in the vessel shouldn't matter because at the point past 1.02 when you seal it, all the headspace should be CO2 and not O2 and it should be well protected. I have found that CO2 is still released even after you hit "dry" fermentation of .998 or less (albeit in smaller amounts). Therefore there should be ample CO2 residing in the sealed vessel to keep it safe.

 

[winemaker81]

@She’sgonnakillme I probably didn't express myself well (it's the engineer - ADHD in me) I agree, don't open the vessel after you seal it off for EM. But I do think you need to agitate it somehow. For me, that involved just shaking it to keep whatever got pushed up by the CO2 coming up, submerged somewhat. I have never done an EM in a bucket, do to the expanded surface area, but if folks have and it works out, more power to them.

The research I've done indicates the must does not need agitation. The difference from open fermentation is the CO2 cover produced by EM.

Like the whole idea of not getting the wine off the gross lees ASAP, it's taking me time to accept it. Practical evidence indicates it works, but I'm a bit stubborn. But not fully mule-headed stubborn.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

It does work IME, I guess Tim G. Started the whole movement to EM wine kits. We did a wine tasting at our lake house over the fourth and had 8 different red kit wines. The top four consensus picks were all EM wines. And all 8 were 1 yr or less old. So I take away that, doing EM on wines has an impact on its drinkability over the first year vs non EM wines. What I am not sure about is whether or not it holds true at the 2+ yr mark.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

It does work IME, I guess Tim G. Started the whole movement to EM wine kits. We did a wine tasting at our lake house over the fourth and had 8 different red kit wines. The top four consensus picks were all EM wines. And all 8 were 1 yr or less old. So I take away that, doing EM on wines has an impact on its drinkability over the first year vs non EM wines. What I am not sure about is whether or not it holds true at the 2+ yr mark.

BTW, the results of the blind tasting were:

1. RJS EP Rosso Grande Excellente - EM 9 months old
2. FWK Forte Super Tuscan - EM 8 months old
3. RJS RQ 21 "The Magician" Nero D'Avola - EM 1 yr old
4. WE Priv Res Nebbiolo - EM 8 months old
5. RJS EP Malbec - 10 months old
6. FWK Forte Bordeaux- 5 Months old
7. RJS Cru Int. Okanagan Meritage- 7 months old
8. WE PR "stags leap" Merlot - 4 months old

Oh, and the age listed is from date of pitching the yeast, so these were all young wines for red standards.