RJ Spagnols En Primeur Winery Series - Italian Amarone Style

[MarcOlivetti]

I‘ve done 2 En Primeur Winery Series - Italian Amarone Style kits, and did EM on both. I racked from the primary buckets at 1.000 into Big Mouth Bubblers for 7 weeks. I used the airlock w/ kmeta and gave the bubbler a swirl everyday for the first week to make sure the skins (floating on top) kept wet. Adjusted to EOD weeks 2-4, then every 3rd day weeks 5-7. The skins sank to the bottom one the first batch, the second batch skins never did drop? Funny how that happens.

Both batches came out great! I took a bottle to our Wine Club meeting at 6 months and a fellow member who had the same Kit, about the same age, w/o the EM, and you could really taste the difference. The mouth feel was much richer, softer finish, and great bouquet. Everyone had complements, I was quite impressed with the difference.

 

[silverbullet07]

Adjusted to EOD weeks 2-4, then every 3rd day weeks 5-7.

Good to hear that EM really helps the product end result. Not sure what adjusted to EOD weeks 2-4, then every 3rd day weeks 5-7 mean.

 

[cmason1957]

Good to hear that EM really helps the product end result. Not sure what adjusted to EOD weeks 2-4, then every 3rd day weeks 5-7 mean.

My guess. During weeks 2-4 swirled the carboy Every Other Day. Then Every 3rd day weeks 5-7.

 

[MarcOlivetti]

That’s correct. I was referring to swirling the bubbler to keep the skins (in bag) wet.

 

[silverbullet07]

@She’sgonnakillme

Just verifying EM procedure when I close the bucket. Should I leave the raisins in the bucket too during the EM. Been reading different things on them.

 

[MarcOlivetti]

Everything was bagged, and left in during primary and EM process.

 

[silverbullet07]

My must fermentation temperature is running around 75-77 F right now. Is this ok. We ran into a rainy cool day and my air is not coming on and my fermenting room is 71-72 now. Measured the temp of the must and it is 78F. Is that getting to high?

I added a fan and some frozen water bottles in the holding box and the temperature of the bucket has lowed to 74-75 now.

 

[Bmd2k1]

BTW, the results of the blind tasting were:

1. RJS EP Rosso Grande Excellente - EM 9 months old
2. FWK Forte Super Tuscan - EM 8 months old
3. RJS RQ 21 "The Magician" Nero D'Avola - EM 1 yr old
4. WE Priv Res Nebbiolo - EM 8 months old
5. RJS EP Malbec - 10 months old
6. FWK Forte Bordeaux- 5 Months old
7. RJS Cru Int. Okanagan Meritage- 7 months old
8. WE PR "stags leap" Merlot - 4 months old

Oh, and the age listed is from date of pitching the yeast, so these were all young wines for red standards.

How long do you EM for?

Cheers!

 

[silverbullet07]

How long do you EM for?

Cheers!

He stated in the earlier thread 6 weeks.

 

[MarcOlivetti]

Your temp is right in the sweet zone. Above 82/83, I would cool off exactly like you did.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

He stated in the earlier thread 6 weeks.

Correct, 6 weeks EM which is roughly 8 weeks in total from pitching of yeast to racking.

 

[Huba Huba]

a beginners question. I just purchased this kit and it should be here in a few days. I have several 5 gallon carboys, and several 3 gallons, I just checked the one larger carboy I have and it holds 6.5+ gallons. When I rack this to secondary would you recommend using a 5 gal plus a 1 gallon,? racking to the 6.5 and topping with another red wine? racking to two 3 gal? I have abundant blackberries and elderberries, and have a few ounces of red grape concentrate, would you add fruit and/or juice to the primary to boost volume to 6.5 gal? The consensus seems to be that this is a really good wine and I don't want to mess it up but I really don't want to buy a 6 gal carboy.

 

[winemaker81]

The consensus seems to be that this is a really good wine and I don't want to mess it up but I really don't want to buy a 6 gal carboy.

My normal process for kits was to fill a 19 liter carboy and then whatever other containers were required. While it works, it's more effort and it's wasteful of wine as you lose some wine from each container every time you rack. Limiting the number of containers is least wasteful.

The 6.5 gallon carboy is possibility, although you may want top topup with a compatible wine. I'd not use fruit as it will change the aroma and taste, and while the final product may be pleasing, it may deviate significantly from the kit's intended aroma and taste. My guess is you don't want that. OTOH, a liter of red grape concentrate will increase the kit size from 23 to 27 liters, and that will fill the 6.5 gallon carboy with some to spare.

The 19 liter carboy + 4 liter jug is a good option, as is two 3 gallon carboys. These options are about the same, although the neck of many 1 US gallon/4 liter jugs may be too narrow to accept some winemaking tools, such as a Fermtech wine thief. In that respect two 3 gallon carboys are a better choice.

In the last year I purchased a 23 liter carboy, and having the entire kit in a single container is the easiest to manage. I expect I'll be buying 2 more over the next year. You said another purchase is in the works at this time, so this is food for thought.

Topup? With 23 liter kits, I plan for 2 bottles of topup, and typically need about 1.5 bottles. I choose a compatible wine and am not concerned about preserving the kit's exact aroma and flavor. If I have a Merlot, I add a Merlot I like, or conversely may go with a Cabernet Sauvignon or Malbec to add complexity.

If you go with the 6.5 gallon carboy, you'll need another half gallon (2.5 bottles) of topup wine. From my POV I'll be drinking it all, kit + topup wine. The only difference in using ~5 bottles of wine for topup is that I'm not drinking them separately.

 

[silverbullet07]

The wine kit instructions state in step 2 to add the Pectinase package when transferred to a clean carboy at sg 1.020.

Since I’m going to do a EM and hold this longer in primary and after it hits sg .998 or lower I was wondering when the Pectinase should be added?Would I just add it after moving it to a clean carboy and then wait 6-7 days before continuing to step 3 stabilizing and clearing or add it before I button up the primary at 1.020?

Thanks

 

[winemaker81]

The wine kit instructions state in step 2 to add the Pectinase package when transferred to a clean carboy at sg 1.020.

Since I’m going to do a EM and hold this longer in primary and after it hits sg .998 or lower I was wondering when the Pectinase should be added?Would I just add it after moving it to a clean carboy and then wait 6-7 days before continuing to step 3 stabilizing and clearing or add it before I button up the primary at 1.020?

If you're doing EM, you want to seal the container before it hits 0.998, as you want the wine to produce enough CO2 to push out air in the container. The container is typically sealed between 1.020 and 1.010.

Pectinase is another term for pectic enzyme -- this is typically added before the yeast, so unless the vendor has a specific reason for adding after fermentation, I'd add it before sealing the fermenter.

 

[silverbullet07]

If you're doing EM, you want to seal the container before it hits 0.998, as you want the wine to produce enough CO2 to push out air in the container. The container is typically sealed between 1.020 and 1.010.

Pectinase is another term for pectic enzyme -- this is typically added before the yeast, so unless the vendor has a specific reason for adding after fermentation, I'd add it before sealing the fermenter.

Yes, I am going to seal up at 1.020 as normal.

As far as the Pectinase, the Instructions state to add the Pectinase at step two when wine is at 1.020 and transferred to a clean carboy. The instructions seems to want it off the lees and grape skins removed before adding it. Seems like it won’t matter to wait or do it before. Maybe if I wait until grape skins are removed there is less pectic to have to drop? Less it has to work? Not sure. I guess it would not hurt to wait until after em.

 

[winemaker81]

.The instructions seems to want it off the lees and grape skins removed before adding it. Maybe it won’t matter to wait or to it before.

The kit instructions are the opposite of what you are doing -- the instructions state to take the skins out early. You're deviating from the instructions, so you need to consider what each ingredient does, and why (outside of kit making) it's added and when.

Pectic enzyme is used, in part, to break down cell structure and improve extraction, which is among the reasons why it's added before the yeast. You're going to get more out of the skin packs if you add the pectinase before EM. This is the reason I often harp on "why" -- when you understand "why", you can make informed decisions and move into advanced territory.

Keep in mind that kit instructions are targeted at beginners who have no experienced help, to ensure they have a successful conclusion on the first try. You're now in deeper waters, learning strokes beyond doggy paddle.

 

[joeswine]

Amen to that brother

 

[szap]

a beginners question. I just purchased this kit and it should be here in a few days. I have several 5 gallon carboys, and several 3 gallons, I just checked the one larger carboy I have and it holds 6.5+ gallons. When I rack this to secondary would you recommend using a 5 gal plus a 1 gallon,? racking to the 6.5 and topping with another red wine? racking to two 3 gal? I have abundant blackberries and elderberries, and have a few ounces of red grape concentrate, would you add fruit and/or juice to the primary to boost volume to 6.5 gal? The consensus seems to be that this is a really good wine and I don't want to mess it up but I really don't want to buy a 6 gal carboy.

One other thing, to top off from 6 to 6.5 would take almost three bottles of comparable wine. I don't know if adding a half gallon would affect the final product, it just seems like alot.

 

[winemaker81]

One other thing, to top off from 6 to 6.5 would take almost three bottles of comparable wine. I don't know if adding a half gallon would affect the final product, it just seems like alot.

Commercial wineries add as little as 2% (what I've seen on the label) and the winemaker believes it matters (not that I'm claiming that my tastebuds are that good). A 750 ml bottle is 3.3% of a 23 liter carboy, and 2% is 460 ml (a bit more than half a bottle). 2 to 3 bottles in a 24.6 liter (6.5 US gallon) carboy is 6.1% to 9.1% of the volume, so it will affect the outcome.

Philosophy time -- I do not care what a kit vendor intended as the outcome, especially as the winemaker has many options to alter that outcome. I care that I like the result.

I formed the opinion that any Vinifera reds can be blended to produce a good result. Adding a couple of bottles of Merlot will change the outcome, but it will be a good outcome, and as long as I like it, so what?

My preference is fresh grapes, so I accept the fact that when I produce a wine, I will NEVER produce that wine again. Once it's gone, it's gone. I may produce wines that are similar, and I will produce wines I like as much, maybe more. But that wine is a one-time thing due to differences in fruit, wine making techniques, conditions, etc. Keep in mind this applies to kits -- concentrate batches will have differences (it's still a natural product), so if you buy the same kit every 3 months, there will be differences.

Winemaking is a journey with a lot of intermediate stops.