Enough Sugar for Cranberry Wine?

[Vertumnus]

Hey all, so I started a 1 gallon batch of cranberry wine following the 'Winemaker's Recipe Handbook' by Raymond Massaccesi. The recipe called for, among other things (don't have it in front of me), 2qts juice, 2qts water, and 1 and 3/4 lbs sugar. My initial SG was 1.094-6. Maybe I'm just used to large batches, but is that really enough sugar for my yeasties to get what they need? They're EC-1118, by the way.

EDIT: Probably should mention that I made a syrup by simmering the 2qts water with the 1 and 3/4lbs sugar for 15 minutes or so

I made up a yeast starter and cast it in last night about 13 hours ago after waiting 24 hours for the campden to do its thing. I've read on here that cranberry is a slow starter, so I'm not too worried for now that nothing seems to be happening, but I just wanted to make sure. Thanks in advance, you all have such invaluable advice.

 

[Deezil]

If your SG is 1.094-1.096, then it was indeed enough sugar to make enough alcohol, to preserve the wine.. What the yeast 'need' though, isn't sugar but quality yeast nutrients..

But you sound like you're on the right track!

Try for a temp of 70-75F while getting 1118 started; that'll get it going, without getting it going 'bananas'

 

[Vertumnus]

Thanks, Deezil. Your answer inspires another question though, the recipe only called for 1/2tsp of energizer and no nutrient. I put in a pinch of nutrient on my own initiative. Is that sufficient or would you (or anyone) recommend more?

 

[Deezil]

Do you happen to have the recipe handy?
And the dosage written on your nutrient package?

 

[Vertumnus]

I'll post it when I get off work or as I call it, winemaking research time

 

[Vertumnus]

From the Winemaker's Recipe Handbook:

33. CRANBERRY or Cranapple Juice

2 qts Juice [I used Trader Joe's 100% Cranberry Juice. Only $4)
2 qts Water
1 3/4 lbs Sugar
2 1/2 tsp Acid Blend
1/2 tsp Pectic Enzyme
1/2 tsp Energizer
1 Campden Tablet

 

[rocket man]

I make cranberry wine a lot and I have never added any nutrients and it always starts up just fine within 24 hours. Just make sure that it's worm enough like Deezil said.

 

[seth8530]

Nutrient is not just about getting your wine to start or even ferment all the way through. It also influences the quality of the final product since it determines what kind of by products the yeast will end up generating in your wine.

I would of tested acid before adding acid blend since I imagine pure cranberry might be kind of acidic and I would of skipped the k meta as well since you are using store bought juice. Your sugar seems about right I imagine if it goes dry you will end up with something of around 12% ABV.

The amount and even the time at which you add the nutrient is actually determined by the type of nutrient you are using so it will be important to know that.

Keep us posted!

 

[Vertumnus]

This is a picture of the nutrient derived from Amazon where I ordered it.

 

[Deezil]

Any fermentation activity?

I would add 1 tsp / gallon of the Fermax; that's what it says here anyway.. I dont use Fermax personally but Midwest is reputable

 

[Vertumnus]

Put 1 tsp into the must tonight and then stirred it to a heavy froth. This picture is from post- nutrient but pre-stirring. Broken hydrometer jar . Won't know SG for a couple days before I get to the brew shop

 

[Vertumnus]

So I just measured the SG tonight finally and it barely seems to have moved. See for your self: The frothy one is from 05/17 when the batch was first made up and pre-yeast and I take to read 1.094, the still one taken 05/19 three days after yeast cast, also reading 1.094. I know cranberry is a slow starter due to its natural benzoate, but is this normal?

 

[peaches9324]

you first mention 33 of cran apple or cranberry? 32 oz are in a quart the recipe you are referring to calls for 2 quarts of juice have you used 2 qrts or 33oz.? Is it warm enough? Might be the preservatives in the juice + the Camden what yeast did you use? To insure the yeast is good and to get off to a good start I make a lil yeast starter- hydrate yeast in 1/2 cup warm water, pinch of sugar, and 1/2 tsp nutrient and or yeast energizer cover with plastic wrap wait till it's all bubbly Did you wait 24 hours after adding Camden to add the yeast? GOOD LUCK

 

[BernardSmith]

? To insure the yeast is good and to get off to a good start I make a lil yeast starter- hydrate yeast in 1/2 cup warm water, pinch of sugar, and 1/2 tsp nutrient and or yeast energizer cover with plastic wrap wait till it's all bubbly

Apologies if you think I am hijacking this thread but should you really add sugar (even a pinch) to dry yeast when you rehydrate? I know that when you make a "true" starter you typically use liquid yeast but dry yeast simply needs to be rehydrated. I wonder if any of the chemists on this forum can say whether the use of sugar during rehydration creates additional and unnecessary stresses on the yeast (that affects its ability to allow nutrients to pass into and wastes out of cell walls). In other words, when you use liquid yeasts those yeasts are not dormant and the sugars and nutrients used are as if you are introducing the yeast into a very virile environment but one with few stressors and plenty of opportunities for reproduction. When you add yeast to water to rehydrate the yeast you have a huge colony of yeast but that colony is dormant and you are waking it from its torpor. In this latter case you want to protect the cell walls until they are strong enough to deal with their environment but the addition of sugar so early in the process can damage the cell walls, can't it?

 

[peaches9324]

I'm certainly no chemist but to be clear I do hydrate the yeast before adding the pinch of sugar. Should have been more clear, I don't see you as being a hijacker lol I happen to like constructive criticism. I would like a chemist to answer this question also if I am doing something the wrong way I appreciate the right way be known. If not for me for all that has read that post but I have never had a problem doing it that way It has been and still is a learning experience

 

[Deezil]

So I just measured the SG tonight finally and it barely seems to have moved. See for your self: The frothy one is from 05/17 when the batch was first made up and pre-yeast and I take to read 1.094, the still one taken 05/19 three days after yeast cast, also reading 1.094. I know cranberry is a slow starter due to its natural benzoate, but is this normal?

Is it warm enough?

I would ask the same thing

Any changes?
Any temp reading?

I make a lil yeast starter- hydrate yeast in 1/2 cup warm water, pinch of sugar, and 1/2 tsp nutrient and or yeast energizer cover with plastic wrap wait till it's all bubbly

Apologies if you think I am hijacking this thread but should you really add sugar (even a pinch) to dry yeast when you rehydrate?

I'm no chemist.. But I read their work..

Sugar, nutrient and energizer are all harmful to yeast, during the rehydration. Yeast rehydration nutrients have been formulated for that particular step.

11.3 of this PDF touches on why it's important to have the correct nutrient.. And here is the protocol for using Go-Ferm, one of the yeast rehydration nutrients they produced based on that research

Funny enough, I cant find the research right now that actually states that fermentation nutrients are harmful to yeast rehydration processes, but I'll keep looking for it - I've seen it numerous times.. Grr..

 

[seth8530]

It is posted by some stuff by Scott labs. Pretty much, do not use DAP based nutrients ( includes fermaid K for sure) during rehydration. I am not even sure if you should use Fermaid O or not to be honest.

 

[peaches9324]

thanks Bernard, Deezil and Seth for setting me straight! From now on I only hydrate!

 

[peaches9324]

Deezil now I'm confused found this quote by Turock on another thread

"Yes, you can use energizer to hydrate your cultures and it's also of use when fermenting vegetables and for use to restart a stuck or sluggish ferment.

Many people use regular old nutrient. It's fine if that's all you can get---Raeway, one of the members here, lives in Canada and cannot get the better nutrients like Fermaid in Canada. So she's stuck with regular nutrient, and it works fine. But the new nutrients like Fermaid K provide your ferments with better micronutrients and vitamins and your ferments will go more smoothly. The instructions on Fermaid K are always to hydrate with Go-Ferm. And make the last addition at the 1/3 sugar depletion mark. For regular nutrient, it's always recommended not to add anymore after the 50% dry stage because it contains quite a good amount of DAP--di-ammonium phosphate. DAP provides inorganic nitrogen and a ferment past the 50% dry stage---the yeast cannot utilize the nitrogen any longer and it provides a good environment for spoilage organisms. So it kind of depends on what type of nutrient you're using.

Now Fermaid K DOES have DAP in it--a nominal amount. But it also has organic nitrogen, which supplies amino acids that is better utilized by the yeast than it is from ammonia salts.

Always look at the instructions for doseage on the different nutrients and split that dose in half or thirds, depending on which one you're using.

For more info on the Fermaid products--there's more than one--you can access the Scott Labs Fermentation Handbook online. I'm lucky to have this great book in my library, but the online form will give you the same info."

 

[peaches9324]

Turrock is the sugar really that stressful on the yeast? I look at it as just giving them something to munch on