excess acid

[PhilDarby]

Ok this might be a bit early to bring up, but, u know how it is wen you've had a few and you've been sampling and not sure if it because you've sampled a few or if its subjective or not, well, ive just tried an experiment, which goes like this, I made a cherry wine that was made from what I can gather bitter or prob cooking cherries, I had few and the acid became excesive, I have gastric problems and went to the cupboard for some help, then I thought hang on, thats pointless, what would happen if I added it to the wine, so, I added the tip end of 2 spatulas of sodium bicarbonate to my 250 mls that was waiting to be drunk (a well known burger place the spatula came from for stirring coffee) well anyone who knows chemistry will know acid plus base = salt plus water, there was no obvious salt at the bottom but I filtered it anyway, the funny thing is it has a nice taste still but has a more neutral taste like less offensive if that makes any sense, the base flavour is still the same but less harsh acid wise.

OK I do realise im probably a bit tipsy, but, on a wine forum I expect that might be acceptable hopefully.

Feedback and opinions appreciated.

Ive also noted that a nice wine, that's very well made can taste different with every glass until you've had about 700 mls, or, collapsed which ever is sooner, I guess that's how they arrived at a 700 ml bottle.

 

[PhilDarby]

Well ive left that brew for one half hour after adding the sodium bicarbonate, and all I can say is that it has transformed the wine into a more palatable and more easily tolerated drink than previously was , the case. The amount I added was prob to small to be measured weight wise and I have no acid content measurements.

TBH I don't want to continue these comment atm because they might not be subjective as im fairly pickled and it is, just one mans pickled opinions.

But, I would like to open this topic for discussion.

What we are discussing here is a tiny amount of sodium bicarbonate and I will admit one of the senior guys brought up this subject not long back, when your actually having a drink on session this might seem insignificant, but, there probably is a relationship between final s.g. and final p.h. that we all prefer as individuals.

As a provisional, open for discussion subject I would like to discuss, the use of sodium bicarbonate, to arrive at a final p.h. for consumption, ill do further testing and comments, when I can provide more info to add to this subject.

Provisionally, I prefer an s.g. of 1.02 to 1.05 for finished wines, but, ive never done p.h. readings or other tests to add to this info, cost etc being the prohibiting factors

 

[PhilDarby]

you know im closing ths down on a non commercial basis its both too complexed and un neccessary

 

[GreginND]

First it would help if you did actually test the acid. But taste can be a great guide.

Your experiment is certainly worthwhile.

In the future I would recommend you use potassium carbonate instead of sodium bicarbonate. The sodium will stay in your wine and if you need to add too much can give a salty taste. Potassium (in grapes at least) will precipitate as potassium bitartrate and does not give a salty taste to the wine.

Here's a good article that explains acid adjustments in grape wines. http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/acidph.htm

 

[Deezil]

1.002-1.005 or 1.020-1.050?

Acidity and sweetness are a balancing act, but that act is not complete without adding in alcohol content and the body of the wine. It's a multi-faceted balancing beam that makes up a finished wine. Only calculating/testing for alcohol and sweetness, is only addressing half of the problem; I could spit TA and pH numbers at you, but if you don't test for them then they won't mean much. But basically what you've found out is that the acidity of the wine in question is throwing off the balance/harmony of the wine as a whole.

The way you've gone about it and the question you pose, isn't a position alot of us have found ourselves in, not because we're some sort of masters of winemaking, but because it's easier on the fermentation process/yeast and our guts, like you've experienced, to address this balance issue pre-fermentation with TA kits and pH meters.

Sodium bicarbonate itself isnt commonly used, but instead winemakers use potassium carbonate and calcium carbonate, in an effort to limit the amount of sodium we intake.

 

[PhilDarby]

To be honest, Its not often I get bad acid from wine, but, circumstances etc brought it home tonight, it actually tasted very nice and didn't appear too unbalanced until I had drunk about 5 hours worth of wine, the amount I added was really small, and didn't have any real noticeable effect apart from reducing the acid content.

Thanks for the comments guys, ill keep it in mind, tbh I had the sodium bicarbonate in the home already, hence I used it, tbh I have it in, in case I get acid in any case, kind of a stock supply, I keep in and I knew it was an alkaline substance hence I used it to begin with.

not sure where u get potassium carbonate and calcium carbonate from tbh, sodium carbonate I get from the local supermarket, also, unlike most people I have a known gastric problem, so mostly its prob not a real issue.

Fianl p.h. may well be, of wide interest, so thanks for the feedback ;-)

 

[Arne]

There is nothing wrong with doing the acid tests according to taste. Each of us is different and have different tastes. If you make the wines according to your taste, you get something you like to drink. If you figure out how you like it, do the tests on it if you have the equipment and then you can bring your other wines to the same acid tastes. Good luck with it, Arne.

 

[Turock]

We have very acidic soil here so many fruits and grapes grown here need acid adjustment. The best way to handle this is to use a PH meter to see where the PH is at. If too acidic, it's best to adjust the PH with CALCIUM carbonate PRE-FERMENT. Adjustments before fermenting integrate into the wine better and produce a balanced wine that you don't have to try to fix post ferment. We use lots of calcium carb every year!! Very rarely do we need to ADD acid.

 

[PhilDarby]

Am I right in thinking calcium carbonate is chalk ?

 

[GreginND]

Yes calcium carbonate is chalk. If you use calcium carbonate you want to do it before fermentation and age your wines at least 6 months or longer. The calcium salts do precipitate but they are very slow. You may want to look up the 'double salt' method if you use it. And you need to get a ph meter and test your acid.