Failed home brewer, what are my odds at succeding with fruit wine

[winotut]

What is important is why you stir. I have a short article Yeast for Beginners on my BLOG that may answer some of your questions.

SBW,

Thank you for that. I did read your entry regarding yeast and the stirring for the first 48 hours. I can relate to the need to oxygenate yeast, it's something I've done as a brewer. Opening the primary for anything still seems dangerous! ...But I am learning.

Beer, by enlarge, does not produce protective alcohol to the extent wine does. Also, we (they) don't use metabisulfite or any other help regarding unwanted microbes aside from stringent sanitation and protecting the wort from the atmosphere. The oxygenation must me quick and efficient right before pitching the yeast and then the wort/beer is usually tightened up for a majority of the primary.

So when I read one person stating "stir the must every day in the primary", which then exposes the must to the atmosphere AND stirs in all kinds of nasties floating in the air, who has apparently made terrific wine over the years and other person equally experienced saying not to stir except to push down the cap, and this happens a number of times with a number of experienced people, well, I suppose I needed to make note of my bewilderment.

My intention was not to put one specific person in the spotlight but to highlight the fact that as a noobie it's difficult to know which way to go when we have various choices and no choice seems wrong. Perhaps making wine is easier than one thinks!

Your idea of stirring for a few days seems logical to me, providing oxygen to the yeast while they pollute their environment with high amounts of CO2. As their activity drops over a few days the need for stirring diminishes. Higher alcohol levels provide some protection as well. Nice. I may just run with that!

 

[sour_grapes]

So when I read one person stating "stir the must every day in the primary", which then exposes the must to the atmosphere AND stirs in all kinds of nasties floating in the air, who has apparently made terrific wine over the years and other person equally experienced saying not to stir except to push down the cap, and this happens a number of times with a number of experienced people, well, I suppose I needed to make note of my bewilderment. [emphasis added]

Now, Steve (cpfan) did not say NOT to stir. He said that HE does not stir. Small but significant difference.

Anyway, I think you have relearned the old maxim: Ask 10 winemakers, get 11 opinions!

 

[BernardSmith]

I am no expert and certainly not a biochemist, but I think that the yeast with which you inoculate the must creates an environment that favors it and its needs and disfavors possible competing yeasts and bacteria. Thus for example, if an organism needs O2 to thrive, the CO2 produced by the yeast suffocates the volunteer. The yeast, too, will create a particular pH that allows it to thrive which will (very likely) be inimitable to probable competitors. Add to this the fact that the alcohol level in wine will build up and will kill or inhibit the existence of other molds, bacteria and wild yeasts...
There is another "good" reason for opening the fermentor and stirring wines (if not beers), and that is that there is a great deal of evidence that yeast tends to gather at different levels and stirring the liquor helps ensure that the colony of yeast has stress free access to all the fermentable sugars, thus reducing the likelihood of stalled fermentations. This would seem to make some sense when fermenters are 6 or 7 gallons in volume - or larger.

 

[wineforfun]

Here's a "senior member" who believes in stirring must for oxygenation of the must for the yeast. Is that correct?

Another senior member just recommended to opposite to me, or at least stated he doesn't stir with the exception of the stirring that occurs to push fruit down...

Hmm, I 'spose ya can't go wrong!

Couple of things.

First, I see you are in Omaha. I am in Papillion.

Second, I am not sure who would recommend not stirring when in the primary as oxygen is your friend at that point. I usually stir twice daily when fermenting.

 

[wineforfun]

is deciding which avenue to go when there are differing opinions from a wide range of knowledgeable people!

Coming from someone only 3yrs. into the winemaking venture, I would recommend making either a. dragon blood or b. a kit.
The reason I say this is these two options are pretty straight forward(as long as you follow the instructions) and will give you a good idea of how to do things and will yield a decent wine for minimal cost.
I was where you are awhile back and found most processes are agreed upon by the majority on here. Yes, there are a few people that do things differently but the overwhelming majority do it the same, ie: ferment in an open bucket, stir daily, add kmeta to your wine, sorbate only if you are going to backsweeten, etc.

 

[winotut]

Coming from someone only 3yrs. into the winemaking venture, I would recommend making either a. dragon blood or b. a kit.
The reason I say this is these two options are pretty straight forward(as long as you follow the instructions) and will give you a good idea of how to do things and will yield a decent wine for minimal cost.
I was where you are awhile back and found most processes are agreed upon by the majority on here. Yes, there are a few people that do things differently but the overwhelming majority do it the same, ie: ferment in an open bucket, stir daily, add kmeta to your wine, sorbate only if you are going to backsweeten, etc.

Nice. Thank you all! I would like to say also, "wineforfun", that you just answered what was going to be my next question regarding sorbate...

I've got another, more poignant question that revolves around my original post (OP) in another thread, but I'll ask here as it's still echoing in my head, a question I should have simply asked, along with all my yack'n. I have another kit and can start again depending on what I end up thinking I should do...

If you found your wine in the primary at UNDER 1.0 gravity at the 4 day point and realized it has all along been exposed to atmosphere AND stirred that day (and yesterday) would you (yes YOU):
A) Keep it and bottle it in that you realize you've done worse and it turned out alright. or,
B) Realize it has been overly oxidized and toss it, you've been there and it was NOT a good thing.

No explainations! YOU, "A" or "B"? tick, tock. tick, tock...

 

[sour_grapes]

A A A A A A A A and A A A A A A A A

 

[wineforfun]

Agree with Paul, A.

Maybe its too early and I am not reading correctly but why would you think there would be a problem with the wine in primary at Day 4? Sounds like it was a quick fermenter and time to rack into the secondary.

 

[winotut]

Thanks guys. I remember being so paranoid when I started brewing as well. However, 10 lbs of grain and an ounce or three of hops was about 20 bucks, a kit is over $60!

Wineforfun, the problem is not the low gravity day four, its that the wine was not under airlock but fully exposed while gravity sank to under 1.0, AND STIRRED at least twice while low, and staying exposed till day 5... I did not expect the gravity to drop like that so did not secure lid and airlock.

Stirring the wine and having it exposed to atmosphere while gravity lowered to under one, that's my concern.

I'd go ahead and bottle after sulfiting and degassing, but if I'm gunna end up with vinegar due to the above, I'd rather do another kit and this time measure gravity daily after day two. Ya know?

 

[wineforfun]

Thanks guys. I remember being so paranoid when I started brewing as well. However, 10 lbs of grain and an ounce or three of hops was about 20 bucks, a kit is over $60!

Wineforfun, the problem is not the low gravity day four, its that the wine was not under airlock but fully exposed while gravity sank to under 1.0, AND STIRRED at least twice while low, and staying exposed till day 5... I did not expect the gravity to drop like that so did not secure lid and airlock.

Stirring the wine and having it exposed to atmosphere while gravity lowered to under one, that's my concern.

I'd go ahead and bottle after sulfiting and degassing, but if I'm gunna end up with vinegar due to the above, I'd rather do another kit and this time measure gravity daily after day two. Ya know?

You are fine, most everyone has their wine exposed to air while fermenting and not airlock. Airlock comes when we rack to secondary.
Usually we either put a towel or loose lid over the bucket, just to keep dust, bugs, etc. out. Letting oxygen in is perfectly fine.
Sounds to me like you are right on track with things.

 

[DoctorCAD]

Exposing the must to air WILL NOT KILL YOUR WINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wine is not beer, it is very forgiving. Excessive air exposure can make a wine kit taste port-like, but it will not kill it and you will not end up with vinegar. Heck, prisoners ferment fruit cocktail in their toilets and it makes wine.

Always remember, SO2 is your friend, wine binds to it easier than to plain old O2, so keep your SO2 concentration up and don't worry.

 

[winotut]

Exposing the must to air WILL NOT KILL YOUR WINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wine is not beer, it is very forgiving. Excessive air exposure can make a wine kit taste port-like, but it will not kill it and you will not end up with vinegar. Heck, prisoners ferment fruit cocktail in their toilets and it makes wine.

Always remember, SO2 is your friend, wine binds to it easier than to plain old O2, so keep your SO2 concentration up and don't worry.

Sulfite. Yup. Good thing I followed the damn kit directions and did not add any sulfite yet. Gave me one packet to add prior to degassing... I did buy a pound of it tho and on my next kit I have a feeling I'm gunna add a quarter tsp of it anytime I move the wine, regardless.

It's under 1.0 gravity, airlock has settled down (on carboy) so I'll degas this wkd (with sulfite and fining) and let it clear in a cool environment... If I end up with red wine vinegar I'm gunna find you all and put dirt in your fermenting wines! hehe

Thank you all again for your input and down the road a bit I'll let ya know if we enjoyed it at all or if you'll be scratching your heads looking at your "soil de vinno"