Fermentation vessels

[Cosyden]

@mstrick96 I’m based in the UK and have been gleaning everything I can from CJJBerry which seems to be the bible over here.
During CJ’s era (1960’s to 1990’s) home wine marking in the UK was generally carried out in small batches in 1 gallon demijohns (carboys/jugs).
A lot of the wine recipes call for a syrup, tea or liquor to be made from the raw ingredients. Those recipes go straight into the demijohn whereas any recipe with solids in it goes into a primary fermenter bucket. So, I would guess it’s just down to ease dealing with the fruit/veg/leaf etc., solids.

 

[mstrick96]

@Jusatele thanks for the link on food grade plastics! I didn't know that the different numbers are for recycling. Good to know.

I have a couple of food grade 2 gallon buckets with lids that I got from one of the big box stores. Now I know more specifically what to look for.

 

[Monty Knapp]

Some basics:
Yeast need oxygen to build cells and go through the reproduction process. A juice with no oxygen will have a sluggish or stuck fermentation. Once we are at 50% sugar reduction yeast reproduction stops so at this position adding oxygen doesn’t really matter to the yeast.
* a reductive/ no oxygen environment preserves molecules which contribute fruity aromas. An oxidative/ cover with towel environment has less fruity notes left. If you are doing a big red wine where flavors come from tannin and oak products the oxygen doesn’t matter. With extremely fruity styles the oxygen kills the fruit. ,,,, some of open vs closed is a style issue. Another potential problem is browning. Red wine has poly phenols that are antioxidants and help retain color where as white grapes without polyphenols are subject to browning.
* mold is a risk with grape skins floating. An easy way to prevent mold is to submerge the pulp twice a day. To get access the towel method helps.
* oxidized ethyl alcohol (acetaldehyde) occurs with oxygen and alcohol. Early in the ferment there isn’t significant alcohol so acetaldehyde doesn’t reach significant/ tasty levels and the towel method is fine. At 50% sugar consumption the yeast are slowing down so the flavor risk increases.
* micro oxidation especially in reds modifies the flavor in a positive way. Again what style of wine? Fruits and whites don’t improve for the most part. industrial wine is in large tanks where the surface to volume ratio is low they tend to be more reductive. To produce an oxidative wine slow oxygen will get bubbled in a stone on the bottom of the tank. ,,, Some of your question is only relevant to home wine makers with small volumes and high surface to volume ratios.

Great information. Thanks

 

[hawkwing]

I recently heard about pressure fermentation for beer. Would this be beneficial for wine? Has anyone tried it?

 

[winemaker81]

I recently heard about pressure fermentation for beer. Would this be beneficial for wine? Has anyone tried it?

I had to look it up. It sounds a bit like carbonic maceration, and may produce a similar result.

Note that carbonic maceration produces a wine that is drinkable immediately but has a shelf of a few months. Beaujolais Nouveau is released on 15 November each year, and when I buy it, I drink it no later than the end of the following January. By April it's (IMO) undrinkable.

Search on both terms for good explanations of what they mean.

 

[BigDaveK]

I recently heard about pressure fermentation for beer. Would this be beneficial for wine? Has anyone tried it?

I had to look it up, too. Sounds interesting. Seems like it would be stressful on the yeast. I'm wondering, would you wait till fermentation is "mostly" done before sealing?

And if it works for wine, why haven't I seen it mentioned?

 

[winemaker81]

And if it works for wine, why haven't I seen it mentioned?

Making beer and wine have one thing in common -- they are fermented with yeast. Everything else is different. Folks who are experienced in one will experience problems when trying to transfer their experience.

 

[mstrick96]

@Cosyden Thanks! On order!

 

[mstrick96]

Everyone else, PLEASE continue the thread! All of your responses are helpful !!!

 

[winemaker81]

In a slightly different direction, Home - WineMakerMag.com constantly publishes articles. About half are free, the other requires a paid membership. The free is $30 USD/year, and I've found it worthwhile. Some articles are too brief and/or cursory, while others are solid gold.

If you're finding this forum useful, IMO it's worth $20/year to be a supporter.

 

[Ohio Bob]

In a slightly different direction, Home - WineMakerMag.com constantly publishes articles. About half are free, the other requires a paid membership. The free is $30 USD/year, and I've found it worthwhile. Some articles are too brief and/or cursory, while others are solid gold.

If you're finding this forum useful, IMO it's worth $20/year to be a supporter.

Agree totally with your view on WineMaker magazine. I’ve been a subscriber for maybe 30 years. Probably got more information in a few months on this forum. I guess I’m being guilted into being a supporting member.

 

[winemaker81]

Agree totally with your view on WineMaker magazine. I’ve been a subscriber for maybe 30 years. Probably got more information in a few months on this forum. I guess I’m being guilted into being a supporting member.

Sorry about the guilt trip! I was a member for many years, occasionally lurking, rarely posting. A few years ago I exited the woodwork, and realized how much I was getting from the forum, so I coughed up.

I agree with you regarding the forum. I use WineMakerMag for specific facts, along with other professional or research sites. But the discussion here is the most useful. There are several dozen winemakers, some of whom have been making wine for less than a year, whose input I value. We share practical experience, and that is hard to beat.

 

[mstrick96]

So far, this forum has been very helpful to me. If I continue with winemaking, I'll definitely.become a supporting member!

Regarding fermentation vessels, I was pleased to learn that the orange Home Depot buckets are food grade! The embossing on the bottom says HDPE #2. They will be perfect for some 3 or 4 gallon batches, as well.as for brining and other food related projects!

 

[winemaker81]

Regarding fermentation vessels, I was pleased to learn that the orange Home Depot buckets are food grade!

One of the members of my local grape purchasing co-op has roughly 40 of them. He purchased a large, fine-weave straining bag to line each bucket. When crushing grapes, he puts one 36 lb lug into each bucket and ferments each separately. Then he pulls each bag out of the wine, lets it drain a bit, then puts it into his press.

Keep in mind that having floor space for 40 buckets is a bit more than having floor space for 3 or 4 twenty gallon Brutes. Planning is required, especially for transport. IIRC, he has a large truck plus a trailer that he uses to transport from the delivery/crushing site to his home.

 

[Jusatele]

I have done both, beer and wine,
I first started with wine, did beer and went way over the head in that, and then I quit both, now into wines again
Yes there are major differences. And you have to keep them separate in your head. But that is not hard if you did wine first, because wine is less of a brew day event and more of an aging event. Beer is the opposite. Beer brew day is very long, fermentation is fast, and aging is minimal.
Also beer guys like the conical style fermenters and wine guys are more into simple fermenters. After owning way to much beer stuff, I now use 5 gallon food grade buckets for 3 gallon batches of wine. THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGES I have found is that they are cheap, they are easy to find, you can get into them to clean or to remove must, they are easy to punch down the cap and if you get a scratch in one, you just mark it, replace it, and use it for another task around the house

 

[winemaker81]

Yes there are major differences. And you have to keep them separate in your head

Well said.