Finer Wine Kit Finer Wine Kits

[Khristyjeff]

There always seems to be a lot of discussion on using distilled, RO, spring, tap and well water. I started out using RO water in winemaking understanding the lack of minerals in it and the PH shift. Since our well water is so poor at my house, using RO was my only option short of purchasing water from the store. I like the taste of RO but understand the final wine taste might benefit from mineralized water.

As I've considered this more and more, I've finally decided to make future batches using remineralize water. I intend to do this by blending ConcenTrace Trace Mineral liquid into my RO water. I can taste, test and tweak the water blend as I see fit prior to blending with concentrate.

Not sure if it will make much of a difference but it might make me feel a little better about using RO.

In addition to your RO, do you also have a water softener attached to your incoming well water? We have very rusty well water but it seems the softer in our case makes our tap water very tasty. We still have RO but I don't hesitate to use/drink the tap water.

 

[Brant]

In addition to your RO, do you also have a water softener attached to your incoming well water? We have very rusty well water but it seems the softer in our case makes our tap water very tasty. We still have RO but I don't hesitate to use/drink the tap water.

Yeah, I have a custom built softener that completely transforms our water. It utilizes a pre filter chamber with KDF 85 to precipitate out iron and H2S. It's quite amazing the difference it makes. Our softened water tastes better than most city water. We still don't drink it though. I prefer the thought of everything being stripped out and starting from scratch. Our well is at 1000 ft but there is always possibility, albiet low, of a neighbor contaminating the water source or the potential that there is already natural contamination that exists. Plus our water is extremely hard and the RO is great at removing the excess sodium that the softener adds. I get large deposits around my shower heads so it's pretty obvious how much sodium is in the softened water.

 

[ratflinger]

@Brant - your risk is the same or greater for city water. Look at all the cities and towns that go on boiled water notice. I know your water's hard, used to live in Bulverde and we pulled @ 800 ft. Softened and used that water for my wine. We since moved south of SA and are on a co-op. Still soften, but I also have a filter in my wine room that strips contaminates. I have used bottled water and frankly I can't taste the difference. I would use bottled water before I used distilled water with minerals added back, but that is just me.

 

[Brant]

@Brant - your risk is the same oe greater for city water. Look at all the cities and towns that go on boiled water notice. I know your water's hard, used to live in Bulverde and we pulled @ 800 ft. Softened and used that water for my wine. We since moved south of SA and are on a co-op. Still soften, but I also have a filter in my wine room that strips contaminates. I have used bottled water and frankly I can't taste the difference. I would use bottled water before I used distilled water with minerals added back, but that is just me.

Agreed. I also used a RO system when I was on city water. That was the main reason I started- water quality standards are horribly lax. I kept using RO when we went to a well mainly to remove sodium, not specifically contamination. But doing an in depth water analysis to test for contaminates is expensive. It's easier to just strip with RO and ignore the test.

You do realize that some bottled water is just filtered tap water? I've also had bottled water that tasted off... not reassuring. We recently received multiple pallets of the stuff at my job that must have been sitting out in the sun too long (assumed). The water literally tasted like plastic- horrible! For now, I'm going to proceed with my plan to see what happens. I really don't expect it to make much difference anyway. If I decide to not remineralize, I'll just keep using RO regardless. That way, at least I know what I'm working with.

Edit: Not sure what filter your using. Not sure if anyone makes a filter that strips all contaminates but leaves the minerals. I have my doubts. Companies can make claims they dont have to back up unless they carry a certification and many filters don't. Plus a standard filters effectiveness will wane during its life span. RO is pretty much the leader in removing impurities and its simple to verify its effectiveness. I wouldn't trust a Brita or some other carbon block filter to remove all contaminates. But this is just me and I'm obviously a little OCD.

The original reason I started using RO was when we had our first kid. I started looking into water quality standards and didn't like what I found. I'm not the type of person who is afraid of my shadow, I just prefer to be in control of the things that are reasonably controllable. I've probably breathed more hexavalent chromium than anyone on this forum but I wouldn't let my kids do it. I set different standards for my children than I do for myself. When they are old enough to decide- then they can choose. I guess that's what started me down the RO path. If I hadn't had kids, I'd still be drinking tap water at the old house in SA. I'd also have a lot more fee money and probably a sports car instead of a Sequoia.

 

[Chuck Rairdan]

There always seems to be a lot of discussion on using distilled, RO, spring, tap and well water. I started out using RO water in winemaking understanding the lack of minerals in it and the PH shift. Since our well water is so poor at my house, using RO was my only option short of purchasing water from the store. I like the taste of RO but understand the final wine taste might benefit from mineralized water.

As I've considered this more and more, I've finally decided to make future batches using remineralize water. I intend to do this by blending ConcenTrace Trace Mineral liquid into my RO water. I can taste, test and tweak the water blend as I see fit prior to blending with concentrate.

Not sure if it will make much of a difference but it might make me feel a little better about using RO.

And what a great way to get your trace minerals!

 

[Old Corker]

My 2 cents on the water. I’m not a chemist or any kind of food scientist. I only have my experience to draw from. I have made kit wine with all kinds of water with no discernible negative impacts. I have always avoided tap water because of the additives in it but have used RO and all manner of purified bottled water. My working theory and the reason I prefer distilled water is this. The condensing process used to make the juice in kits removes only H2O from the juice. Any minerals or other that was originally in the grape juice is still there. Distilled water only adds back what was taken out. I have nothing but respect for the scientists who are so generous with their knowledge on this forum. I have learned so much from them. This is just my theory as unscientific as it is.

 

[cmason1957]

I did an experiment once, Chardonnay kit as I recall. Split in half, so became 2 three gallon batches. One with Spring Water, One with tap water. There was a difference in the final product. I took a bottle of each to a meeting of our wine club and we did a blind taste test of them. About half preferred one, about half the other one. I preferred the spring water one, but only marginally.

I make my Finer Wine Kits using spring water.

 

[bstnh1]

I just racked a FWK Tavola Chardonnay after sitting in the carboy for 3 months. There was a fair amount of sediment on this racking , but what surprised me is that the color is still fairly dark even though I used the carbon pack. Anyone else notice that the carbon doesn't really do a whole lot for the color?

 

[iagowasframed]

I just racked a FWK Tavola Chardonnay after sitting in the carboy for 3 months. There was a fair amount of sediment on this racking , but what surprised me is that the color is still fairly dark even though I used the carbon pack. Anyone else notice that the carbon doesn't really do a whole lot for the color?

Yes the carbon made it a little less brown but still a bad color for me I just mix it with a little red so I don't see the color

 

[Bmd2k1]

Any @Matteo_Lahm sightings/updates lately?

 

[jgmann67]

Wherever he is, I'm thinking he deserves a round of applause. Maybe this has been floating around for a while and I'm just seeing it now. But, I was thinking this morning - "I wonder what impact a new wine kit has had on the industry? What impact has FWK had?" Well, first stop for me was WineMakerMag.com to see what the Top 100 wine kits were in the 2022 annual competition. Out of the 403 kit wine entries, this is how FWK did (using the UC Davis 20-point scale):

Number 2 rated Cabernet Sauvignon (70th overall).
Number 4 rated Merlot (94th overall).
Number 1 rated Zinfandel (40th overall).

Impressive. I think the prevalence of FWK wines in the 2023 Top 100 will be even greater.

Kudos to Matteo and Matt!

 

[bstnh1]

Wherever he is, I'm thinking he deserves a round of applause. Maybe this has been floating around for a while and I'm just seeing it now. But, I was thinking this morning - "I wonder what impact a new wine kit has had on the industry? What impact has FWK had?" Well, first stop for me was WineMakerMag.com to see what the Top 100 wine kits were in the 2022 annual competition. Out of the 403 kit wine entries, this is how FWK did (using the UC Davis 20-point scale):

Number 2 rated Cabernet Sauvignon (70th overall).
Number 4 rated Merlot (94th overall).
Number 1 rated Zinfandel (40th overall).

Impressive. I think the prevalence of FWK wines in the 2023 Top 100 will be even greater.

Kudos to Matteo and Matt!

3 spots on the top 100 is not really that impressive, considering that Winexpert has nearly 50 spots. The list is still dominated by Winexpert, RJS, Mosti and the rest of the familiar ones.

 

[jgmann67]

3 spots on the top 100 is not really that impressive, considering that Winexpert has nearly 50 spots. The list is still dominated by Winexpert, RJS, Mosti and the rest of the familiar ones.

I’d be interested to hear from @Matteo_Lahm on the growth at FWK.

To me - Three spots after just 2 short years in business is pretty impressive. RJS, WE and Mosti are names that have been around forever, so I’m not surprised that the list is dominated by them.

Time will tell. But, I think the 2023 Top 100 will yield double that (maybe more). And the year after, even better.

 

[wineview]

3 spots on the top 100 is not really that impressive, considering that Winexpert has nearly 50 spots. The list is still dominated by Winexpert, RJS, Mosti and the rest of the familiar ones.

I had the same thought. Yet I really like FWK.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

I won 3 medals in the AWS 2022 competition a few months ago. I don't think many people submitted FWK's in that one, probably because it was a tad early for Forte wines to be properly aged. With that said, I did get:

Forte Super Tuscan Silver
Tavola Riesling Silver
Frutta Strawberry Bronze

I sent in 6 FWK's for the upcoming Winemaker Mag competition, but UPS "lost" my shipment!! and I didn't feel like resending six more. So I guess I will have to wait until next year.

 

[winemaker81]

I sent in 6 FWK's for the upcoming Winemaker Mag competition, but UPS "lost" my shipment!! and I didn't feel like resending six more. So I guess I will have to wait until next year.

Someone is enjoying your wine.

 

[joeswine]

I think these wines take longer to come around and in some cases don’t have enough body to content .
Adding Reds to a competition they need at least 2 years idle to make the mark .
Because of all the variables being add to them it could take longer to come of age even for this style kit.
Just remember these are only my thoughts , don’t take as a personal thing.
Also when you go into wine makers or , cell masters you’re going up against some petty good crafts people.
Just my thought’s

 

[joeswine]

I think these wines take longer to come around and in some cases don’t have enough body to content .
Adding Reds to a competition they need at least 2 years idle to make the mark .
Because of all the variables being add to them it could take longer to come of age even for this style kit.
Just remember these are only my thoughts , don’t take as a personal thing.
Also when you go into wine makers or , cell masters you’re going up against some petty good crafts people.
Just my thought’s

I’ve been up against the best of them

 

[winemaker81]

I think these wines take longer to come around and in some cases don’t have enough body to content .

What do you base this opinion on? How many FWK have you made, and how many have you tasted?

 

[Mekpdue]

Number 1 rated Zinfandel (40th overall).

I vinted up a batch of FWK Zinfandel Forte in March 2022. Did 36 hours of cold soak, warmed up, pitched the yeast, aged until December then bottled Christmas Eve (13.7% abv). It was good then during a taste sample, and I just opened the first bottle to try as a test. The test? The day prior we went to a few wineries in Geneva, OH and I ordered a Zinfandel from one of the smaller wineries (not an Ohio grape for sure). The pour I got from the winery was horrible. It was a kit wine from somewhere, with little to no aging, little to no oak additions, and had that terrible 'Kit Taste'. I am one of those people who do detect that kit taste in young Reds, and I tasted it in a few of the Reds that I've made from 'other' kits (hint-let them age a minimum of 14 months). I immediately knew I wanted to open one of my FWK bottles and compare.

The next day I opened the bottle (11 months in), nice fruity aroma and maybe light oak. The taste was the HUGE win, it hasn't completely settled down yet, and still needs a few more months of aging, but dark cherry, blackberry, good balance, and mouthfeel. I can vouch that the Zinfandel should be Number 1 but give it a year and a few months to enter into a contest for the win. I've got to give Matteo credit for this offering. I'll be buying another Zinfandel soon.