First time harvesting and fermenting fresh grapes

[BenK]

Ok team,

Red wine update:

PH 9.23.18
Marquette 3.47
Foch 3.77+3.83
Saint Croix 3.75


Racked off the lees. The wine all went up by between .3 to .4 PH. I did not add Malo yet. Not even sure if I should at this point. Maybe for microbial stability after bottling. The number difference also might imply it went under MLF with native bacteria. I am not sure if RC212 would eat acid in this quantity, or at all.


I rinsed my testing container in kmeta between samples and I ran two samples of the foch to see if it made a difference between rinsing in meta or distilled water. The lower PH is the sample from a cup rinsed with meta (also off first gallon of siphoning. and the second sample is from the container being rinsed with distilled water before collecting the sample and is from the last gallon siphoned from the carboy.In practice, at the level I am working with I'll just need to be consistent using the same liquid for rinsing out the sample container. I'll be ordering tartaric acid with my oak this next week.


As of right now, with a little swirling in the glass the Marquette is the most balanced of the 3. All are still too "bright" and almost a little concord-esque in the nose and on the tongue.


Shopping list for tomorrow.

1.tartaric acid
2. oak cubes (any opinions on light/medium toast?/grams per gallon)
3. More kmeta (Running very light, need to hit them again after going to the LHBS
tomorrow)


Task list for Monday/Tuesday:
1. Decide if I'm going to do MLF on reds
2 Test PH on LaC
3. Rack the Lac
4. If I do Malo, get the culture going.

Questions:
-PH Changes normal without MLF? Do the changes imply MLF with wild bacteria and that is why my PH changed consistently through the varieties?

-Has anyone used dry malo bacteria? I've kept it in my fridge for 3 weeks. Hopefully it's not all dead

-Light or medium toast French oak cubes for these varieties? Leaning towards light toast for tannins and mouthfeel.

-I've got 3/4ths of a gallon of red blend in a 1 gallon carboy. Probably going to grab a random cheap pinot to top it up, or hit it with a large dose of meta. It's for topping up after racks which probably won't happen again for 3+ months, or for possibly making a blush with any leftover La Crescent .

 

[CK55]

Do MLF

 

[BenK]

When doing MLF should I also do my small volume containers for top ups, knowing they might get used for blush wine in the future? I'd have for all of my blush to turn into bottle bombs after bottling.

 

[CK55]

When doing MLF should I also do my small volume containers for top ups, knowing they might get used for blush wine in the future? I'd have for all of my blush to turn into bottle bombs after bottling.

It isn't that important to top up during malo as it's typically during secondary and it produces co2

 

[BenK]

So what I meant was I have a blend of the 3 reds in various .5 and 1 gallon carboys that didnt fit in the 3 gallon carboys I filled for each variety. Im concerned if I make a blush with it when im ready to bottle the new blend will undergo MLF in the bottle.

 

[CK55]

Then either do mlf or add sorbate. Because you don't want gushers or bottle bombs.

 

[Ajmassa]

It isn't that important to top up during malo as it's typically during secondary and it produces co2

MLF is not producing anywhere near enough co2 to protect the wine. Fresh from fermentation you’ll have existing co2 in there. But that runs out. Once your MLfing and in glass you should definitely be topped up. It could be weeks or months before complete and your not protected by sulphites yet. Topping up essential during this time.
If mine I would not inoculate the small containers. Too little amount to affect the rest once used for topping. And also since you’ll be making a rosè with it.

Btw- “Secondary” isn’t a actual thing. Just the last little bit of fermentation finishing after pressing and transferring. And a lot of winemakers out there refer to MLF as ‘secondary’ actually. Kit manufacturers use the term- and can be confusing at first.

 

[CK55]

MLF is not producing anywhere near enough co2 to protect the wine. Fresh from fermentation you’ll have existing co2 in there. But that runs out. Once your MLfing and in glass you should definitely be topped up. It could be weeks or months before complete and your not protected by sulphites yet. Topping up essential during this time.
If mine I would not inoculate the small containers. Too little amount to affect the rest once used for topping. And also since you’ll be making a rosè with it.

Btw- “Secondary” isn’t a actual thing. Just the last little bit of fermentation finishing after pressing and transferring. And a lot of winemakers out there refer to MLF as ‘secondary’ actually. Kit manufacturers use the term- and can be confusing at first.

Well my sangio has gone about 2 weeks with some amount of headspace I did add some ascorbic acid which scavenges oxygen so it's probably okay.

 

[Ajmassa]

Well my sangio has gone about 2 weeks with some amount of headspace I did add some ascorbic acid which scavenges oxygen so it's probably okay.

A couple weeks is probably cool. But as time continues the existing co2 from AF diminishes and eventually the wine will be unprotected.
My mlfs have all finished in under a month- but many people have waited 2 or 3 or more months for MLf to finish.
If your not topped up and so much time passes and it’s still not finished then it’s probably best to top it up at some point.

 

[CK55]

I think it will finish within 3 weeks it's only 3 gallons.

 

[Johnd]

I think it will finish within 3 weeks it's only 3 gallons.

The speed of completion of a malolactic fermentation is not related to the volume of wine if you inoculated the appropriate amount of bacteria into the wine.

 

[CK55]

That's what white labs told me as they made the malo I'm using.

 

[Johnd]

That's what white labs told me as they made the malo I'm using.

So you’re not speaking from experience........

 

[CK55]

So you’re not speaking from experience........

Well both experience and goin on what they said.

 

[Johnd]

Well both experience and goin on what they said.

ROTFLMAO!!!!

 

[CK55]

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Just saying, you can still he experienced and still go on advice they said. I've had it take less time and take more time. But given temps in area it's going through malo it's probably going to be faster.

 

[Ajmassa]

Questions:
-PH Changes normal without MLF? Do the changes imply MLF with wild bacteria and that is why my PH changed consistently through the varieties?

Yeah there’s a lot happening during fermentation. And ph changing can happen. Also if the samples haven’t been degassed then that can give skewed readings too. (Something I ALWAYS forget to do)

-Has anyone used dry malo bacteria? I've kept it in my fridge for 3 weeks. Hopefully it's not all dead

Yea the dry stuff is said to be better than the liquid.

-Light or medium toast French oak cubes for these varieties? Leaning towards light toast for tannins and mouthfeel.

This is all personal preference really. Light french will take forever to take. French oak is light enough to use the Medium without concern of over oaking and getting the desired benefits.

-I've got 3/4ths of a gallon of red blend in a 1 gallon carboy. Probably going to grab a random cheap pinot to top it up, or hit it with a large dose of meta. It's for topping up after racks which probably won't happen again for 3+ months, or for possibly making a blush with any leftover La Crescent .

I just realized your total volumes. I’d inoculate all your jugs proportionately except this 1 only.

 

[BenK]

Today's update:

Whites:Haven't racked the La Crescent yet due to very little fine lee accumulation, but I hit each carboy with 50ppm kmeta


Reds: Stuck my wine thief in the Kmeta solution bucket and am going to let it sit for a bit. Then I'm going to pull some wine out of the almost overfilled 3 gallon single varietal carboys and top up the gallon that has a little headspace. Then add 1g/gallon opti-malo diluted in distilled water, and sprinkle some of the powdered MLF culture into the carboys.


Haven't gotten to oaking. Time/financial constraints and have already sunk more than I should have into this project (learning time being my first batch, money due to extra supplies needed but will already have in the future)

Questions:
1. I know malo is gentle compared to actual fermentation, so no risk of foam over with a topped up carboy?

2. should I just add more MLF powder than necessary because I have excess and cannot store it long term?

 

[Johnd]

Questions:
1. I know malo is gentle compared to actual fermentation, so no risk of foam over with a topped up carboy?

2. should I just add more MLF powder than necessary because I have excess and cannot store it long term?

No risk of foam over, top it up like a finished wine.

You can’t keep it, might as well dump it in, no harm at all, and will help starting with a big colony.

 

[BenK]

Alright, All of the wine is still under airlock. I will rack the reds in November and but them under solid bung assuming MLF is finished or mostly finished. The whites will all go under Solid bung the next time I go to the LHBS.


In about a week, once the malo has started to run I will give the reds about 20-30PPM dose of sulfites, they have not been sulfited since the onset of fermentation. Hopefully this will be enough to protect the wine and still allow malo to continue.

Thank you for quelling my fears.