For pleasure or profit?

[seth8530]

Nah, a winemakers gotta grow a hydrometers before he can grow a carboy * looks down in the shower..* .....check!

 

[jswordy]

My grandparents own a winery here in TN. So, I know what you mean about it being kinda tough to get into business around here... However, it is not impossible.. that is for sure..

I myself just enjoy making wine, It is something I really like to do and I cant wait to see where it takes me.

No, it's not impossible in TN, just incredibly difficult if you are investing rather than spending. In the aggregate, when you look at the number of annual failures and the extremely low total number of wineries in the state, you see it's a tougher environment than NC, Virginia, Kentucky, Illinois or Arkansas, as far as neighboring/nearby states. Only neighbors Alabama and Mississippi come close to the strictures of TN. Actually, in Alabama, it is easier for small wineries to sell product and they have a distributor dealing only in small winery products.

It is indeed easier to distill in TN than to ferment wine, and a bumper crop of new distilleries is popping up in response to targeted legislation to encourage them. But with the wine restrictions on where produce can be obtained and how wine can be sold, the wine business model is tenuous.

I have seriously considered a winery and seriously explored the rules in many various states, and I would definitely move if I were to do it. On the other hand, if you have a lot of money and don't care that the business plan is weak (like Kix Brooks at Arrington Winery), that's another story. I had gained the potential backing of a wealthy prospective partner, who nonetheless wanted to see a return on his investment, and we eventually arrived at the conclusion that the business model here is very difficult for ROI due to the state laws.

This is a very good document that illustrates in general the roadblocks to wineries in TN: https://utextension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/PB1688.pdf

This explains the selling restrictions on TN wineries: http://tnwinelovers.net/TNWineLaws.html The site explains a lot of TN wine laws, like mandating that all wines be sold through a distributor in liquor stores only, etc.

It's a far cry from simply buying your state permit, as in Iowa.

 

[jswordy]

would't you still need your federal licences and bond in Iowa along with the state permit?
To answer the original question, mine is only hobby. I have had people offer to pay me for wine, the answer is always no, followed by the suggestion that I'm always on the lookout for free or cheap fruit.

Yes, but the federal laws are a constant. I am referring to the state laws only, since those are the place where there is a patchwork of laws and varying degrees of restriction. Some states are very easy, some are unbelievably difficult, and usually the difference is how much the politicians are in the pockets of the big beer, wine and liquor distributors.

Why for example did California wines rise over the Midwestern vintages? One reason was growing environment. But never discount the fact that it was also relatively easy to become a bonded winery there.

 

[JohnT]

Julie,

I agree with everything you have said, in spades!

I have never accepted money for the wine I make. I also make less then the legal limit.

That being said, IMHO, questions like "how much do you make" and "do you sell your wine" should never be asked or answered.

My thinking is that there really is no benefit to knowing this about others and the liabilities are obvious.

 

[Julie]

Julie,

I agree with everything you have said, in spades!

I have never accepted money for the wine I make. I also make less then the legal limit.

That being said, IMHO, questions like "how much do you make" and "do you sell your wine" should never be asked or answered.

My thinking is that there really is no benefit to knowing this about others and the liabilities are obvious.

Exactly!!!!!!!! And thanks for this post.

 

[Runningwolf]

Julie, you mean all this time you would have just given me your wine for free?

 

[FABulousWines]

Uh oh, somebody is in trouble!

 

[Julie]

FABulousWines, Dan is always in trouble!

 

[Dylan]

So basically no one here has a degree in enology and viticulture or a licensed wine business... Got it. Although, some are perusing to take their "hobby" to the next level and make a living out of it. Thank you everyone for your feedback, be it paranoid or not.

 

[jswordy]

So basically no one here has a degree in enology and viticulture or a licensed wine business... Got it. Although, some are perusing to take their "hobby" to the next level and make a living out of it. Thank you everyone for your feedback, be it paranoid or not.

Yeah, just for the record, I for one am not paranoid about it. I am an amateur vintner who abides by the laws and regulations in my state.

Were the laws in Tennessee such that I could make an adequate business case to turn pro, I would.

There are several members who operate commercial wineries, and several more who are establishing such operations.

I did not feel like your question was out of bounds at all. It's been asked before.

 

[GaDawg]

I'm retired, and I make wine for fun. If it were a job I would not do it

 

[JohnT]

be it paranoid or not.

Sounds like a Narc to me.

Ok buddy, tell FBI pals to remove that plain white van from the front of my house!

 

[novalou]

Sounds like a Narc to me.

Ok buddy, tell FBI pals to remove that plain white van from the front of my house!

Go watch the movie or read the book "Atlas Shrugged".

 

[Dylan]

Sounds like a Narc to me.

Ok buddy, tell FBI pals to remove that plain white van from the front of my house!

Hahaha keep digging yourself in a hole there guy

 

[Loner]

A very informative book .. A nice (lengthy) read.

 

[GreginND]

So basically no one here has a degree in enology and viticulture or a licensed wine business... Got it. Although, some are perusing to take their "hobby" to the next level and make a living out of it. Thank you everyone for your feedback, be it paranoid or not.

While most people here are "amateur" home wine makers, there are several who are working on the commercial side. Some who are in the process of starting up wineries and some who are already open for business. Some who work at wineries. I think you have all walks showing up here.

 

[Runningwolf]

When the man at my door hollered ATF, I thought it was just another delivery.

 

[Midwest Vintner]

I do both at the same time. I actually LIKE to make wine. Not just drinking it. We like to experiment, so having a license just means we can sell it if we get approval. It takes process and ingredient approvals to make anything that's not your basic fruit wine (grape or other fruit). Our raspberry chipotle, for example.

If you think starting a winery means profit, you are kidding yourself. Getting legal isn't easy either. Would I do it again? Yes, but by no means is it easy.

 

[downunder]

Commercially. In Australia it sounds as though it is a little easier than in many states in the USA. If you do it commercially you have to decide do you do it from a cellar door or from markets/farmers markets (if allowed) etc.
Its not like the movies "If you build it they will come" cellar door sales are all about location ...location...location. If you build your cellar door at the end of a dirt road 10 miles from the highway don't expect a crowd.
That's why I chose the market route because your customers come to you, You just have to convince them to buy.
Will not go into any more detail but if anyone wants general guide lines on which way to go just ask although the legal requirements between our countries are different the same basic rules apply as to how and if you set up cellar door sales/market method of selling.

 

[jswordy]

Go watch the movie or read the book "Atlas Shrugged".

Oh please - Ayn Rand? For real?

I did not realize we could discuss politics on this forum.

"I wouldn't be so paranoid if they all weren't against me." - Maj. Frank Burns, MASH 4077th