Fresh Juice Pre-order

[vacuumpumpman]

The biggest additions with the juice buckets was changing my yeast to BM 4x4 and adding Fermaid K to it - GAME CHANGER

 

[Jovimaple]

The biggest additions with the juice buckets was changing my yeast to BM 4x4 and adding Fermaid K to it - GAME CHANGER

I have some Fermaid O that I am planning to use. And upon others' recommendations, I ordered some Renaissance Avante yeast, which I have not used before.

And of course I will be using my wonderful AIO wine pump!

 

[vinny]

The biggest additions with the juice buckets was changing my yeast to BM 4x4 and adding Fermaid K to it - GAME CHANGER

Are these frozen buckets?

Mine will be, and I was told they are already inoculated. Jst thaw and let 'er go. I assumed it was wild yeast, but was told the yeast was already added...?

 

[Jovimaple]

Are these frozen buckets?

Mine will be, and I was told they are already inoculated. Jst thaw and let 'er go. I assumed it was wild yeast, but was told the yeast was already added...?

I think they may originally be frozen but it was mostly thawed by the time I got it home the last time I did one.

My LHBS included instructions that recommended mixing in bentonite but after that, you can let 'er rip with the yeast that's already included OR you can dose with 1/4 tsp kmeta, wait for 24-36 hours, and then inoculate with your own choice of yeast.

My plan is to stir bentonite in some water in one of my 7.9 gallon fermenting buckets, then siphon (easier and cleaner for me than dumping) from the 6 gallon pail to my 7.9 gal fermenter and add kmeta during the siphoning process. I will also be stirring in some Fermaid O. Then I will get my yeast starter going and inoculate 24 hrs or so later. I figure the juice should be room temp by then, so I can get an accurate SG reading before inoculating with the yeast starter.

 

[vinny]

I think they may originally be frozen but it was mostly thawed by the time I got it home the last time I did one.

My LHBS included instructions that recommended mixing in bentonite but after that, you can let 'er rip with the yeast that's already included OR you can dose with 1/4 tsp kmeta, wait for 24-36 hours, and then inoculate with your own choice of yeast.

My plan is to stir bentonite in some water in one of my 7.9 gallon fermenting buckets, then siphon (easier and cleaner for me than dumping) from the 6 gallon pail to my 7.9 gal fermenter and add kmeta during the siphoning process. I will also be stirring in some Fermaid O. Then I will get my yeast starter going and inoculate 24 hrs or so later. I figure the juice should be room temp by then, so I can get an accurate SG reading before inoculating with the yeast starter.

This is what I was considering based on Steve's comment. I can make snap decisions when you throw in statements like Game changer.

I am only at 6 months, but the Kits I did with intentional yeast choices are all a big step up from my previous batches, except one. The Malbec is a little Meh, for my tastes, but the Sangiovese is really good. It was a 6 week, cheap kit and I can't detect the 'brand' flavor that I was complaining about that inspired the yeast changes in the first place.

 

[vinny]

When you get a kit, the skin packs come labelled with the varietal, but they are more like jam than skins. I imagine in most cases a dry skin pack is a skin pack?

I am still thinking these reds. Petite Verdot, Pinotage, and Carmenere. Skin packs for all? 1 or 2?

I am on the fence on the Petite Verdot. I am not planning to blend. Reading up it is used more as a blend, but coming from warmer climates it can make "intensely bold, fruity-yet-floral red wines that can, and do, easily stand on their own."

Go for it?

 

[winemaker81]

When you get a kit, the skin packs come labelled with the varietal, but they are more like jam than skins. I imagine in most cases a dry skin pack is a skin pack?

The ones I'm familiar with are dried skins, e.g., skin packs. I haven't see the jammy ones.

I am still thinking these reds. Petite Verdot, Pinotage, and Carmenere. Skin packs for all? 1 or 2?

It depends on what you want. If you go without skin packs, red grape juice makes a light to medium bodied wine. I made FWK Tavola Barbera and Pinot Noir without, and had fruity reds ready to drink in 6 months. I'm especially pleased with the Pinot Noir. It's a good turkey wine which I can serve to folks who are not into heavy reds.

Add a skin pack, and you get a meatier red. I'd definitely do the Pinotage with a skin pack, but I'd want it heavier. Also the Petit Verdot. I'd do the Carmenere without to have a quicker drinking wine.

I am on the fence on the Petite Verdot. I am not planning to blend. Reading up it is used more as a blend, but coming from warmer climates it can make "intensely bold, fruity-yet-floral red wines that can, and do, easily stand on their own."

I've had varietal Petit Verdot out of CA, and I liked it. I've used it for blends as well, and it contributes color and flavor.

Try making it with a skin pack, and when preparing to bottle other wines, add a bottle or two into a 23 liter carboy. It will jack up the complexity and add a bit of color. Plus you can drink it on its own. It's a no-lose scenario.

 

[vinny]

The ones I'm familiar with are dried skins, e.g., skin packs. I haven't see the jammy ones.

These aren't specific to the varietal though, correct? I can get skins, but not specific to the juice I am purchasing.

It depends on what you want.

I like big reds, but I currently have 3 in bulk. That will give me 5. I am mixing up my kits with 2 limited edition kits and 2 6 weeks kits. With the 6 week kits I am still keeping bottles to compare later, but I am aging them out to about 6 months and I refer to them as the utility wines. Enjoyable, but if there are no bottles left in 6 months, there'a another batch on the way. My Pinot Noir was a higher end kit and I intend to skip the second half in the rotation that is still in bulk and mix in a utility wine instead while that one bulk ages out to a year, or 18 months. Then I can compare bottles, but also push out the remaining half to a better age.

Mostly I am trying to make enough that I can keep up with demand, but I am trying to make enough variety with slight changes, kit vs juice, skins vs not, oak vs none, that I have a nice variety of well made and aged wines, but the main reason for the variety is that in 5 years when I am into the last of these bottles my pallet will have developed as much as the wine, and hopefully my understanding and skills as a winemaker.

I read that FWK recommends no more that 4? skin packs per kit? Should I just stick with one for the juice? I am liking the idea you suggested with skins on 2 and leave the Carmenere to put in the rotation sooner.

 

[winemaker81]

These aren't specific to the varietal though, correct? I can get skins, but not specific to the juice I am purchasing.

I can't say for all vendors, but IIRC, FWK skin packs are all Cabernet Sauvignon. I would assume that skin pack varietal does not necessarily match the kit varietal.

Mostly I am trying to make enough that I can keep up with demand, but I am trying to make enough variety with slight changes, kit vs juice, skins vs not, oak vs none, that I have a nice variety of well made and aged wines, but the main reason for the variety is that in 5 years when I am into the last of these bottles my pallet will have developed as much as the wine, and hopefully my understanding and skills as a winemaker.

That is an excellent strategy. I currently have 20 different wines in my racks, including 4 dessert wines. Although my white selection is limited (2 varietals), my red selection is very diverse, from medium body "utility" wines to a heavy reds that are still not quite there at 4 years old.

I read that FWK recommends no more that 4? skin packs per kit? Should I just stick with one for the juice? I am liking the idea you suggested with skins on 2 and leave the Carmenere to put in the rotation sooner.

IIRC, Matt P said there are diminishing returns beyond 2 skin packs, and 4 may be a maximum. My 2021 main batches were triple FWK Forte batches, Super Tuscan in one and Merlot/Petite Sirah/Syrah in the other, using the included 2 packs per kit. I used Scottzyme Color Pro and got the same results I get from grapes, e.g., really dark color extraction, more grape tannin, better mouthfeel, reduced vegetal character, and it has a pectinase effect (pectic enzyme).

The downside is that it's a perishable liquid and pricey, but it does things that take multiple other enzymes. I'm looking into a trade off on price + shelf life to see if I want to switch. If I do, it's because of cost, not results.

Instead of adding more than 2 skin packs, look at maceration enzymes.

 

[cmason1957]

I will add that I read somewhere that the WE and RJS skin packs are all Merlot. But don't take that as gospel. They are certainly not related to the juice that's in the the kit.

 

[vinny]

I will add that I read somewhere that the WE and RJS skin packs are all Merlot. But don't take that as gospel. They are certainly not related to the juice that's in the the kit.

Thanks!

I was assuming the labelling was because the 'jam' adds to the flavor of the wine and is likely a concentrate of the juice.. So many unknowns as we walk through our progression, always nice to have the experience of the group.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

Are these frozen buckets?

Mine will be, and I was told they are already inoculated. Jst thaw and let 'er go. I assumed it was wild yeast, but was told the yeast was already added...?

They are not frozen buckets - they come in just above freezing. When ordering in large quantities you have a choice have it sulfited with or without yeast added. At least this is what I am told