Finer Wine Kit FWK - Tavola vs Forte red wines

[winemaker81]

A recent discussion with a friend got me thinking about Tavola vs. Forte.

I've made 2 Tavola kits, which produced a lighter style of red. Both were drinkable relatively quickly and the shelf life is good. The Pinot Noir is holding well at 2.5 years, and the Barbera's last bottle was good at 2.75 years. Both are a lighter style than I normally drink, but were made to be lighter, so mission accomplished.

In 2021 (when I made the Barbera) I also made two triple Forte batches (1 - Super Tuscan, 2 - Merlot, Syrah, Petite Sirah) which were barrel aged. Both batches turned out well and are holding fine. Assuming any is left, I expect they'll be good at the 5 to 7 year mark.

Since I have great access to grapes, I have not been making kits, but I'm thinking in the future if I'd want to make.

Given my likes, I'd probably not make Tavola again. Or ... make it with 1 skin pack.

Anyone who has made Tavola both with zero and 1 or 2 skin packs, what do you think about the differences?

 

[Bmd2k1]

as a fan of a less tanniny vino -- I tend to make more Tavola -- either with typically Zero or occasionally 1 skin pack.... and will continue along that path. ;-)

Cheers!

 

[wineview]

A recent discussion with a friend got me thinking about Tavola vs. Forte.

I've made 2 Tavola kits, which produced a lighter style of red. Both were drinkable relatively quickly and the shelf life is good. The Pinot Noir is holding well at 2.5 years, and the Barbera's last bottle was good at 2.75 years. Both are a lighter style than I normally drink, but were made to be lighter, so mission accomplished.

In 2021 (when I made the Barbera) I also made two triple Forte batches (1 - Super Tuscan, 2 - Merlot, Syrah, Petite Sirah) which were barrel aged. Both batches turned out well and are holding fine. Assuming any is left, I expect they'll be good at the 5 to 7 year mark.

Since I have great access to grapes, I have not been making kits, but I'm thinking in the future if I'd want to make.

Given my likes, I'd probably not make Tavola again. Or ... make it with 1 skin pack.

Anyone who has made Tavola both with zero and 1 or 2 skin packs, what do you think about the differences?

I made a Tavola kit with two skin packs I had in the freezer. Because the Tavola kit has a bit less juice than the Forte, I made five and a half gallons instead of six. The wine turned out really good.

 

[A14ES]

I wasn't able to find a table at labelpeelers that would allow one to compare a lineup of the FW kits (not sure if price would be the only guide?) Also - labelpeelers have after-Christmas sale on FW kits. Also - I did order a kit from them today but intend to freeze it until I could get some pomace from Temecula wineries next September. What would be the best way to preserve FW concentrate and skin-pack for a year? Thank you.

 

[wineview]

I’ve never froze the juice but I have kept the skin packs in a freezer for 6-8 months.

 

[winemaker81]

What would be the best way to preserve FW concentrate and skin-pack for a year?

The only way to save the concentrate is freeze it

 

[A14ES]

I’ve never froze the juice but I have kept the skin packs in a freezer for 6-8 months.

My last kit - FW Pino N., Forte, was shipped to me in summer, and I kept in the modified fridge, at 42F, until this November. When time came to use it, the bladder was bloated, and there were some white developments on skins, like crumbled stucco. I pulled away the biggest affected skin clusters, and proceeded per kit instructions. Thinking back I should had hit the mast with a tablet of Campden first.

 

[ratflinger]

I usually make Tavola for my table wine and Forte for longer term. I made one Tavola w/o skins and did not like the lightness, so every other Tavola has had at least one skin pack. Depending on the varietal made I also add raisins, etc.

BTW - I have made Tavola with 2 skins packs and it adds to the wine, but after adding 2 skins packs one is approaching the price of the Forte series and I do find that to be a better kit.

 

[winemaker81]

I usually make Tavola for my table wine and Forte for longer term. I made one Tavola w/o skins and did not like the lightness, so every other Tavola has had at least one skin pack. Depending on the varietal made I also add raisins, etc.

BTW - I have made Tavola with 2 skins packs and it adds to the wine, but after adding 2 skins packs one is approaching the price of the Forte series and I do find that to be a better kit.

This is pretty much what I'm thinking. The plain Tavola came out good, but were just a bit too light for my tastes. For folks that prefer lighter, a good experiment is to make the same Tavola kit twice, once with 1 skin pack.

It's unlikely that I'll make kits any time soon, given my current access to grapes. But ya never know!

 

[Shurt1073]

Anyone who has made Tavola both with zero and 1 or 2 skin packs, what do you think about the differences?

I'm way late to this conversation but it appears not that many make the Tavola with 1-2 skin packs. I intend to make 8-10 FWK Tavola's this year and might opt for one skin pack in a few of my kits if nothing more for the experience. I'll pass on the seeds. Made a Forte in 2023 with seeds/skins and do not like the flavor the seeds leave in my wine.

Bryan, do you believe there is a big difference between a Tavola with and without a skin pack?

 

[wineview]

I can answer that. There is definitely a difference. If you like a light wine skip the skins. I just opened a three year old Syrah Tavola where I used two skin packs I had in the freezer. For my taste, it is very very good.

 

[winemaker81]

Bryan, do you believe there is a big difference between a Tavola with and without a skin pack?

My experience is that adding fruit makes a difference. BITD, better kits included dried elderberry to provide an oomph. It made a difference.

Personal preference comes into play. I've made 2 Tavola, pre-Tavola Barbera and Pinot Noir. Both produced good wine, but both were a bit too light for my taste. The Barbera was my first FWK, so I just made it as-is. The PN was made with the intention of making a quicker drinking red, so the lack of skin packs was intentional.

Should I make FWK in the future, any Tavola will include 1 skin pack.

At this time I have multiple sources for grapes, so I'm not making kits. If this changes, FWK is high on my list.

 

[Shurt1073]

I'm going to be making a lot of FWK this year and to gain experience or knowledge my plan is to experiment with fruit and skins. Good to know I'm on the right track.

 

[BPL]

I'm going to be making a lot of FWK this year and to gain experience or knowledge my plan is to experiment with fruit and skins. Good to know I'm on the right track.

I have not made a FWK red Tavola, but I have experimented with skin packs.

All of my FWK's have been the Forte series. My last red was a FWK Forte Super Tuscan. I ordered two extra skin pack and fermented with all 4, two that came with the kit and the two extra. I don't think the extra two packs made all that much difference.

I think what will make a difference is the fresh skin packs in the limited edition kits. I made two, a Cab and a Petite Syrah. They are definitely bold and will need at least 2 years for aging.

As an FYI, I don't follow the kit directions and add my own ingredients, including different yeasts, hydration nutrients, Fermaid O, and always check and check/adjust acidity.

Barry

 

[winemaker81]

I ordered two extra skin pack and fermented with all 4, two that came with the kit and the two extra. I don't think the extra two packs made all that much difference.

I had a discussion with @Matt_Pruszynski a while back. IIRC, 2 skin packs was chosen from testing as optimal, as adding more packs produced diminishing returns. Your results confirm this. I have no doubt in Matt's statement, but it's good to have an opinion from the field.

I think what will make a difference is the fresh skin packs in the limited edition kits. I made two, a Cab and a Petite Syrah. They are definitely bold and will need at least 2 years for aging.

Based upon my results with the beta Ultima line, I agree that the fresh skin packs add a LOT more oomph to the wine.

 

[BPL]

I had a discussion with @Matt_Pruszynski a while back. IIRC, 2 skin packs was chosen from testing as optimal, as adding more packs produced diminishing returns. Your results confirm this. I have no doubt in Matt's statement, but it's good to have an opinion from the field.


Based upon my results with the beta Ultima line, I agree that the fresh skin packs add a LOT more oomph to the wine.

Thanks. Matteo sent me to two Ultima betas as well.