General Question about Pri.

[rshelton]

So I have read a bunch about open fermentation in your primary. Some do and some don't. I have been snapping the lid shut with my airlock on it. I have three 1 gal batches rolling. I have been far more consistent on stirring my blueberry, but I've also been breaking the yeast nutrient into 2 applications, half at pitch and half a few days later. The blueberry seems to be much more successful, but I've got 2 variables. Not sure if my earlier less violent fermentation are from more O2 from stirring or the dual yeast nutrient. Also all my batches so far are fruit wines and not from premade juice, like you can buy in the gallon jugs for winemaking.

Pulled some for SG check. I couldn't believe how pretty that color was. Delicious too. I started with SG of 1.102 the glass pic was when it was reading 1.060.

I'm absolutely nerding out with winemaking. It's fantastic. I've been driving everyone I see crazy! "You know what else about wine?...." My poor wife has been so patient, although I did notice a packed bag her closet!

 

[cmason1957]

It's looking good. Open top or closed, either is fine, fermentation will happen for most musts. I find open a little bit better for red type wines, where I like to stir once, twice, or thrice a day. As you point out, it makes it easier to stir and to then add nutrients at a specific point.

For white wines, I tend to like to ferment cooler and not stir as often. I do mostly grape wines, get the ph level to a "good" value for wine (3.2 - 3.7 ph to start), which makes things so much easier for the yeast. With a blueberry wine, which sometimes can be difficult to start and keep going, I would have the lid off as well. Also, and this is personal preference, not an absolute rule, for fruit wines, I tend to have slightly lower alcohol and start those at about 1.080 or so. With the higher sg you started with, you may find you will need to backsweeten more to bring out the fruit flavor after fermentation completes and your wine clears.

Enjoy the journey, don't sweat the small stuff, and for winemaking, it's almost all small stuff. Have fun!!

 

[rshelton]

It's looking good. Open top or closed, either is fine, fermentation will happen for most musts. I find open a little bit better for red type wines, where I like to stir once, twice, or thrice a day. As you point out, it makes it easier to stir and to then add nutrients at a specific point.

For white wines, I tend to like to ferment cooler and not stir as often. I do mostly grape wines, get the ph level to a "good" value for wine (3.2 - 3.7 ph to start), which makes things so much easier for the yeast. With a blueberry wine, which sometimes can be difficult to start and keep going, I would have the lid off as well. Also, and this is personal preference, not an absolute rule, for fruit wines, I tend to have slightly lower alcohol and start those at about 1.080 or so. With the higher sg you started with, you may find you will need to backsweeten more to bring out the fruit flavor after fermentation completes and your wine clears.

Enjoy the journey, don't sweat the small stuff, and for winemaking, it's almost all small stuff. Have fun!!

Right on. Much obliged

 

[ChuckD]

look’s like you’re hooked!

For convenience I use a lid but never snap it down or add an airlock.

fermentations are funny things. I’ve had 30 gallons of grape must finish in 3 days and five gallons of Maple wine take 6 weeks!

 

[winemaker81]

Advice for beginners can be tough to provide, as there are multiple paths through winemaking, some of which seem completely contradictory of others, yet all are valid.

I do open containers, sometimes putting a lid on loosely but mostly using a beach towel. Especially for reds that I'm punching down 3-4 times per day, it's easier to deal with.

Also, yeast needs O2 for reproduction, so the yeast is happier when receiving the O2 it wants. I've read various statements indicating the yeast no longer needs O2 when the SG is between 1.010 and 1.050, a large range. Given that OG can range from 1.070 to > 1.100, I question if there is any clearly defined point at which the yeast no longer needs O2, and I suspect it varies by strain. IME the answer to most questions is situational.

For ABV, I agree with Craig. IME, lighter wines (regardless if white, red, or fruit) are overpowered by higher ABV, while heavy reds and fruits (like elderberry) have a lot more body and may do better with a high ABV. Contradicting that are high fruit, high ABV, high residual sugar fruit wines, which can be fine if you want that style of wine.

Experimenting with small batches is a great way to discovered what you like and don't like. 4 liter batches produce 5 bottles, and if a wine doesn't come out to your liking, finding ways to use up 5 bottles is a lot easier than 2 cases ...

fermentations are funny things. I’ve had 30 gallons of grape must finish in 3 days and five gallons of Maple wine take 6 weeks!

Nutrient for the maple wine? Many moons ago I had a mead take months to ferment, but I didn't realize I needed to add extra nutrient as honey has none.

 

[mainshipfred]

I think you'll find the more experienced winemakers use a loosely laid lid or cover simply to keep the bugs out. The internet has it's purpose but you have to be careful of the source of the information. In my opinion you have located the best source for the correct information here. Everything looks great, have fun and as Craig said, "don't sweat the small stuff".

 

[Raptor99]

I use a bucket covered with a dish towel, tied on with a string. That will keep out any bugs that make their way into my wine room.

 

[ChuckD]

Nutrient for the maple wine? Many moons ago I had a mead take months to ferment, but I didn't realize I needed to add extra nutrient as honey has none.

I actually used fermcalc, or one of the nutrient calculators, and added what I thought was a lot of nutrients in 4 steps. It did finally ferment dry.

 

[bstnh1]

I use a Fermonster with the top covered with cheesecloth to keep unwanted critters out.

 

[Shemagra]

This pic was taken when the temp was north of 100F in the Barossa Valley at Rockford Vineyard. They start their open ferment open in the open! Dead bugs, bees, heat… they don’t seem to matter. This was their Basket Press wine which pretty delicious and well respected. I also learned from a former winemaker of theirs that they use 1118. Was just there last month. Wonderful place. Closest comparison in the US for me would be Paso Robles in terms of vibe, scenery, and weather. The vat was lined concrete. They also had a slate one.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

Agree with others that open top (ie with a loose cover) is fine for reds. For white/rose where you want to preserve more delicate flavors, I'd go wwith a closed (but of course vented!) vessel as soon as you start fermenting, as well as try to keep the temperatures relatively cool.

 

[milw]

View attachment 111674This pic was taken when the temp was north of 100F in the Barossa Valley at Rockford Vineyard. They start their open ferment open in the open! Dead bugs, bees, heat… they don’t seem to matter. This was their Basket Press wine which pretty delicious and well respected. I also learned from a former winemaker of theirs that they use 1118. Was just there last month. Wonderful place. Closest comparison in the US for me would be Paso Robles in terms of vibe, scenery, and weather. The vat was lined concrete. They also had a slate one.

I’d love to see the honey those bees made! There are tales of party-colored honey where the bees were visiting a candy factory…

 

[Rice_Guy]

. . . yeast no longer needs O2 when the SG is between 1.010 and 1.050, a large range. Given that OG can range from 1.070 to > 1.100, I question if there is any clearly defined point at which the yeast no longer needs O2, and I suspect it varies by strain.

All fermentations will switch from cell propagation/ aerobic into anaerobic alcohol production. The literature defines this as 1/3 sugar consumption based on doing counts of population per ml. Practically speaking if I looked for exceptions long enough I should find the strain you refer to. The exceptions basically can be ignored. Looking deeper yeast is a live organism so we can push it as by starving other nutrients as vitamins or minerals etc. ,,, Likely with off flavor production.

David posted an excellent graphic of yeast population/ alcohol/ sugar/ nitrogen.

As I got caught in this rabbit hole, I found the following diagram and study. Thank you @Raptor99 for this information. Immensely helpful! I took the information from the study you cited and added the phases to the top of the below study. I believe that they are counting cells as being present, even if not alive, which is why the death phase does not show a decline in cell numbers.

View attachment 96883

Main phases of wine fermentation. Evolution of the main fermentation parameters during wine fermentation on a synthetic medium containing 200 g/L-1 glucose/fructose and 330 mg/L-1 assimilable nitrogen, with the commercial wine strain EC1118 at 24°C. Dark blue: fermentation rate; light blue: ethanol; red: cell number; green: nitrogen; and purple: sugars.

Marsit, Souhir & Dequin, Sylvie. (2015). Diversity and adaptive evolution of Saccharomyces wine yeast: A review. FEMS yeast research. 15. 10.1093/femsyr/fov067.