Getting Started in Country Fruit Wine Making ?

[BernardSmith]

@BernardSmith
It was nice to see your comment about the quality of wine fermented from juice, without the seeds and skins. I was debating this very subject when I was squeezing some recently acquired Concord grapes into juice. I planned to freeze them as my garden harvesting didn't allow me the time to start the fermentation process. When I did this I was wondering what the ratio of juice to normal "pounds of fruit" would be. I also was wondering if it was a good idea to not ferment the skins and seeds. With this is mind I did save the skins and seeds in freezer bags. I was thinking that I might ferment the juice with the skins & seeds in a fruit bag in the fermenter for a shorter amount of time than the full ferment as I am reading that the Concord grape can be a bit acidic as well. I have the juice is 1 gallon size freezer bags as well as 1 gallon size freezer bags of seeds and skins. Any recommendation as to what percentage of each to add in? Lets say I would like to ferment a six gallon size batch.
Thanks for the help!

I know nothing about concord grape wine - I dislike the favor of that grape - and others with far more experience than I may have a different position, but I would argue that the amount of skins (and seeds) you use should be the amount of skins and flesh and seeds that came from the grapes. That is what anyone crushing and fermenting grapes would do with every variety of grape wine that I have some familiarity with. You want the flavors and the color that the skins provide and the tannins that they and the seeds offer. I would assume two weeks maceration if the wine is not white. If white, virtually no skins and no maceration time...

 

[winemaker81]

I was thinking that I might ferment the juice with the skins & seeds in a fruit bag in the fermenter for a shorter amount of time than the full ferment as I am reading that the Concord grape can be a bit acidic as well.

The acid is going to come with the juice -- you'll get color, body, and tannin from the skin and seeds. Let those the the factors in limiting how much skin time you give the wine.

1. Country wines don't really age as well as red grape wines and I think that that is because they may not be able to inhibit oxidation in as robust a way as red grape wines given the lack of tannins that are inherent to the fruits used.

Looking back through my fruit wine notes, I noticed that a lot of recipes call for the addition of powdered tannin. I used plain 'ole "tannin" as that was what was available at the time, but especially for light colored fruit, the addition of tannin powdered designed for white wine will probably produce a good result.

 

[SeniorHobby]

I know nothing about concord grape wine - I dislike the favor of that grape - and others with far more experience than I may have a different position, but I would argue that the amount of skins (and seeds) you use should be the amount of skins and flesh and seeds that came from the grapes. That is what anyone crushing and fermenting grapes would do with every variety of grape wine that I have some familiarity with. You want the flavors and the color that the skins provide and the tannins that they and the seeds offer. I would assume two weeks maceration if the wine is not white. If white, virtually no skins and no maceration time...

I know nothing about concord grape wine - I dislike the favor of that grape - and others with far more experience than I may have a different position, but I would argue that the amount of skins (and seeds) you use should be the amount of skins and flesh and seeds that came from the grapes. That is what anyone crushing and fermenting grapes would do with every variety of grape wine that I have some familiarity with. You want the flavors and the color that the skins provide and the tannins that they and the seeds offer. I would assume two weeks maceration if the wine is not white. If white, virtually no skins and no maceration time...

Thanks Bernard, I am thankful that I save the skins and seeds, kind of sorry that I went through all the hard work of the squeezing! Lesson learned.

 

[SeniorHobby]

The acid is going to come with the juice -- you'll get color, body, and tannin from the skin and seeds. Let those the the factors in limiting how much skin time you give the wine.


Looking back through my fruit wine notes, I noticed that a lot of recipes call for the addition of powdered tannin. I used plain 'ole "tannin" as that was what was available at the time, but especially for light colored fruit, the addition of tannin powdered designed for white wine will probably produce a good result.

Thanks winemaker81!, I will be fermenting with the skins and seeds. As far as the tannin, I have read that crab apple has quite a bit of tannin, I came into a nice amount of them this fall so I might just add that to pick up the tannin. I have read that you can either ferment with the grape or blend later. I am leaning toward the latter as then I have a batch to blend with other wines as well.

 

[Jusatele]

this is a fun thread

 

[Jusatele]

I started this hobby with a batch of banana wine, fermented in a ice chest with a towel over it, racked into 1 gallon bottles.
I bought a carboy next and each batch bought better equipment. Now remember in the 1980s we bought equipment from a add in the back of mother earth news. No brew store in each town.
I went into beer brewing in the early 90s and went overboard. I had a mini brewery by the time I got tired of all the scrubbing. I decided to get back into wine making.
My current set up is way simplistic, 2 fermenters, 8 carboys and my misc. equipment can fit in 2 5 gallon buckets. I have a lot of fun and have many wines that I consider extremely good.
Guess what I am saying is this is a great hobby and you eventually find where you want to be in it. Do not envy someone else or his set up, because they may be envying yours.

 

[waitsumore]

Hi newby here,

I am currently fermenting sweet mulberry wine and looked for a way to give it mouth feel and enhance the flavours and my searching
led me to find Gum Arabica.
It sounds interesting to use as it seems to be human friendly in enhancing Gut Bacteria as a probiotic, and lowering cholesterol properties as
cholesterol binds with it and exits the body in urine, on top of all that it, it is a thickener but to be used in small quantities give alchoholic drinks
mouth feel and a slight sweetness to the tongue.

I have some on the way to me and going to experiment

I'm looking for any feedback out there and welcome any thing at all or someone has experience using this product by way of reply would be really great

I have another product to try for back (nonfermentable) sweetening, and I also have some on its way to me, Acesulfame Pottasium.
3.2g equal to 640g of sugar

any constructive comments welcome
thanks

 

[winemaker81]

I am currently fermenting sweet mulberry wine and looked for a way to give it mouth feel and enhance the flavours and my searching
led me to find Gum Arabica

I have not use gum arabic, so I can't comment on that. However, I add glycerin to all wines with good effect. It adds body, improves mouth feel, and adds a slight perception of sweetness.

Regarding artificial sweetener, test on a small amount of wine. Make sure you like the flavor before using wholesale.

 

[Rice_Guy]

@waitsumore , , , gum arabic is widely used in the food industry, ex to suspend cocoa in chocolate milk. It has the property that one can add more and more of it, and it never changes from thick to a rigid gel. In wine it is listed as providing viscosity and masking harsh flavors as young tannin. My opinion is is doesn’t do a good job of masking, maybe I haven’t tried high enough levels. Bench trials are good to do as make a one gram in 99 ml (gm) of target wine and then use that for creating a series of treatments.

Mulberry is low acid so it needs something to bring the pH down below 3.5. ,,, I like mulberry wine but My observation is that 100% mulberry juice loses the fruity flavors and is hard to identify as mulberry after fermentation. My way to build fruity and some acid is to add 5% +/- lemon juice to the must. If you run high as 20% you will be adding enough titratable acidity so that the flavor naturally balances with a high sweet note as 1.010 SG sugar. (with K sorbate).

Asulfamine potassium is one of my favorite sweeteners. It has a decay rate similar to natural sugar. ie the mouth doesn’t build up weird flavors after sweet notes wash off the mouth. Another favorite is xylose which is 75% as sweet as sugar and washes out of the mouth like sugar. Haven’t tried it but a blend of those two should provide body and sweet and not require sorbate.

I make a mulberry with a few percent lemon juice and grape tannin at the top of the recommended dose. Mulberry juice can make a nice “big red” wine.