Grape skin addition

[WinoDave]

Here we go. Where do I start. Coming from a brewing background I have always been super conscious of sanitation and carried that over to my winemaking. So this morning I walk into this small time vineyard operation. Four acres of grapes or 200 gallons a year. Sanitation was absent. Rinse a carboy with a hose from a well that had a strong sulphuric odor and rack the wine directly into it. When I questioned him he said, “all I ever do is add some SO2. After all it is 12% alcohol so I’m not worried”. I did witness that. But hoses looked dirty strapped to a piece of bamboo with yarn that often laid on a dirty concrete floor right before sticking it in the carboy. I sampled some of what we were racking and it had that distinct fizzy ness to it. I asked about degassing and they gave me a look like I had three heads. Then they offered a sample of a 2004 Sherry. I’m not a fan of thick syrupy Sherry but I was their guest so tried it. To my surprise it didn’t taste like sherry at all. It was a well balanced dry red wine with a touch of alcohol so go figure. Are we all doing it completely wrong? It was an eye opener.

Theres some truth in what he’s saying, higher alcohol % does act like a sterilization agent. People use vodka to sterilize things. For me if I got $100+ invested into a batch of wine I’m spending the extra 30 minutes to a hour to sterilize things properly and eliminate the risk. Going another route I had a buddy who was super clean about all the beers he made but then he’d pitch yeast at his whim never measuring the wort temp, needless to say he had a few beers that tasted crappy because of it.

 

[winemaker81]

Are we all doing it completely wrong? It was an eye opener.

As @Rice_Guy says, wine is a preservation system. High ABV, low pH, it survives a lot. My experience is that home winemakers are often overly paranoid and take extreme measures that professional winemakers do not.

At the same time, the winery you visited is perfectly fine every time until it isn't.

I take my guidance from the professionals I knew who were successful, who were far cleaner than the winery you visited. All were some where in the middle of the 2 extremes.

 

[winemaker81]

Thanks for the information. I’m hoping the skins are available at the same time as I am doing my primary.

I suspect your current plan will work fine.

I've got yet another crazy idea. If all goes well, I'll purchase 16 lugs of grapes next fall. This produces about 40 gallons of wine in 2 batches. I barrel age each for a year and produce 2 distinctly different wines, as I hate drinking the same wine every night. [I have a 5 year plan where I don't make the same wine twice within a 5 year span.]

From the pomace I make 20 gallons of 2nd run, typically all blended together to produce a single batch. My 2019 second run is honestly amazing -- no one who tastes it realizes it's a 2nd run. The 2020? I pressed the pomace harder and got less body from it in the 2nd run. It's actually good, but lighter in color and body -- I don't shy from serving it, but it's not a comparison to the 2019.

I am drinking the 2020 now, and I realize I'm being a bit unfair to it, as it's a good wine.

This fall I'm considering purchasing 2 FWK Tavola reds. Instead of making 20 gallons of 2nd run, I'm considering taking the pomace from each batch and adding it to a Tavola kit. I'll be using double the pomace in a real wine, so I anticipate getting a solid wine from it. I have NO clue yet what I'll make this fall (grape availability varies each year) and I'll probably go with whatever is lowest price. I don't honestly care what I make, as long as I make something.

 

[wineview]

As @Rice_Guy says, wine is a preservation system. High ABV, low pH, it survives a lot. My experience is that home winemakers are often overly paranoid and take extreme measures that professional winemakers do not.

At the same time, the winery you visited is perfectly fine every time until it isn't.

I take my guidance from the professionals I knew who were successful, who were far cleaner than the winery you visited. All were some where in the middle of the 2 extremes.

Let me take my experience one step further. There was a carboy with a funnel in it. As we tested various samples, the guys tossed the remnants of their glass into this funneled carboy before trying another sample. I assumed it was going to be dumped. Not true. At one point the owner needed to top off a carboy and used the wine that was dumped from our glasses. Wouldn’t you say that is really pushing the envelope?

 

[winemaker81]

Wouldn’t you say that is really pushing the envelope?

I'd ask "seriously???" if I didn't realize you are serious. That dude is looking to get shut down for violating numerous regulations. Words fail me.

 

[wineview]

I'd ask "seriously???" if I didn't realize you are serious. That dude is looking to get shut down for violating numerous regulations. Words fail me.

I was taken aback.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Just to be clear. Even though my primary may be finished, I could add them for a few weeks in a sealed bucket?

jumping in late but; As mentioned freezing is a good technique. From a process point of view exposing skins to the ullage/ creating a dry mat has a risk of mold growth, if done after racked from a primary I would want a bag and enough weight to keep the skins below the surface. There is an oxidation risk, if they are properly held below the surface you still need to remove the skins at some point. This is likely to expose the wine to air/ filters/ scooping and be extremely bad oxygen control. , , , , BASICALLY I WOULD NOT DO IT ON SECONDARY.
From a process point I “wash” tannins out of crab apples which are fairly dry. My method is to crush (which skins will have already) then steep with juice in a fridge or freeze the tannic fruit again with some juice. After a week it gets pressed out. Mom’s version of a press was a flour sack and she would twist the pulp/ bag by hand. Quietly adding a clean liquid reduces air exposure.
Traditionally a vinters would use native yeast in the equipment and grapes. It should ferment by itself. The question then is their yeast the selection you want, it may win in spite of inoculation.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

FYI, very soon Label Peelers will be selling a new finer wine kits product. We are going to sell the fresh grape skins individually so people who like to work from fresh juice can use them during primary.

 

[wineview]

FYI, very soon Label Peelers will be selling a new finer wine kits product. We are going to sell the fresh grape skins individually so people who like to work from fresh juice can use them during primary.

That’s great news!