Help needed

[Ricky2Guns]

I went from drip system to sprinkler system for my backyard grapes (9 vines in all ). In just a day or two my Thompsons are showing what I believe is water stress. My Venessa and Cab-Sav look fine. I decided to go back to the drip system. El Paso’s weather is starting to transition to averages of 80degree mornings and 55 degree nights.

The drip system is set at 2gal per hr for 20 min Mon/Wed/Fri.
Are there any recommendations that differ?

 

[NorCal]

When we water our community vineyards, we water 2.5 gallons at a time, twice per week. We only water around 12 weeks out of the year (Northern CA). We have a lot of granite in the soil, not a lot of clay.

 

[Ricky2Guns]

NorCal, what USDA Zone are you in? I’m in zone 8 it gets pretty hot down here. We average 95-100 during the summer. I don’t want to over/under water. I’d like to set it and forget it if there’s such a setting.

 

[NorCal]

NorCal, what USDA Zone are you in? I’m in zone 8 it gets pretty hot down here. We average 95-100 during the summer. I don’t want to over/under water. I’d like to set it and forget it if there’s such a setting.

I’ve never heard of a usda zone, so I looked it up and we are in zone 9. We will have 3 weeks in the summer where it will be 100+ degrees. We start watering the 20 year old vines in the end of June.

 

[montanarick]

I went from drip system to sprinkler system for my backyard grapes (9 vines in all ). In just a day or two my Thompsons are showing what I believe is water stress. My Venessa and Cab-Sav look fine. I decided to go back to the drip system. El Paso’s weather is starting to transition to averages of 80degree mornings and 55 degree nights.

The drip system is set at 2gal per hr for 20 min Mon/Wed/Fri.
Are there any recommendations that differ?

View attachment 60101

what do the growing tip tendrils look like? not being familiar with your area can't say for certain but this might possibly be herbicide damage?

 

[Ricky2Guns]

MontanaRick, It may well be that too as I'm still learning what to do and what not to do. I used a water and dish soap mix to keep bugs off the leaves as recommended as an organic bug deterrent.

Three key elements I need help in is:
1) Frequency of watering - with NorCal's input it seems like I could cut down from 3xs a week to 2xs. Bump up the run time from 20 mins to 1hr 20 mins.

2) How to keep bugs off in summer

3) Fertilizing which to use and how often.

 

[Ricky2Guns]

what do the growing tip tendrils look like? not being familiar with your area can't say for certain but this might possibly be herbicide damage?

Here they are, they seem to be doing fine.

 

[Lando545]

What did you do to them Ricky? Did you put them back on the dripper system?

 

[Ricky2Guns]

What did you do to them Ricky? Did you put them back on the dripper system?

Yep, doing the 2 1/2 Gal every Wed until June. Then I'll visit the local vineyard and see what theyre doing.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

MontanaRick, It may well be that too as I'm still learning what to do and what not to do. I used a water and dish soap mix to keep bugs off the leaves as recommended as an organic bug deterrent.

Three key elements I need help in is:
1) Frequency of watering - with NorCal's input it seems like I could cut down from 3xs a week to 2xs. Bump up the run time from 20 mins to 1hr 20 mins.

2) How to keep bugs off in summer

3) Fertilizing which to use and how often.

If you want to stay organic, try using Neem oil for bugs and Serenade (biological fungicide) for fungi. You'll need to re-apply regularly to maintain a degree of effectiveness. Also consider applying in the evening, especially during hot weather.

For fertilizer, I would test the plants to see what needs to be added and how much. The cost is minimal and should be done when you have some healthy leaves/petioles to harvest (mid season).

 

[Ricky2Guns]

Thank you Dennis

 

[montanarick]

Agree with Dennis

 

[Ricky2Guns]

Thanks Guys, I’m not hard pressed to stay organic what I‘d like is effectiveness in a product. I’m finding through this post that most seem to be using CAPTAN. How often is this used? If its good enough for Major Vineyards it’s definitely good enough for me. I’ve heard videos on the NEEM and one Vineyard manager was not a big fan. He felt it wasnt effective enough.

I did pick up Monterey’s Garden Insect Spray and Bonide Fungus powder. As for the spray I only sprayed from the trunk down as I didn’t know if it was ok to do the leaves while it was starting to grow fruit. If I can get the green light on that maybe I can stop what’s eating my leaves.

As for the fungus powder I find its not effective due to seeing aphids on my apple tree even after application.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

Well, since you put it that way, I suggest starting the season with mancozeb. It has a PHI of 66 days, so be prepared to use something else later. I'd save the captan for the pre-harvest period (~30 days) as it has a very short PHI. Since I also have an orchard, I tend to use products that are effective on both, so there are products that you can use that is great for grapes (and bad for fruit trees) that I don't mentions. main items I rotate through is Immunox, Mancozeb, Captan, Bonide Copper and Fruit Tree spray (early). For bugs I use Garden Tech Sevin (Zeta-Cypermethrin / during JB season) or Ortho fruit & vegetable insect killer (once a year). The Bonide FTS has carbaryl and malathion in it and is effective for emerging/pre-emerging pests. I mix it with Bonide copper for an early once over, trees and grapes. That's basically it, but I recommend taking notes/journal each year to know when and what you sprayed, when you started to see problems, bud break, and harvest.

PS. Not all grapes like sulfur, so check the sulfur tolerance for your variety(s).

 

[Ricky2Guns]

Thanks Dennis that was very informative.

1)You mentioned rotating products and be prepared to use something else later. Does this mean the afore mentions cannot be used long term. 2) Can I spray leaves and fruit with these mentioned?
3) Are the products I posted better used on fruit trees or grapes now that I've purchased them?

 

[Dennis Griffith]

Rotation is a technique to keep pests from developing resistance to what you use. For instance, I switched away from carbaryl to combat japanese beetles as it seemed they had grown accustomed to having it as seasoning on the grapes leaves. Then I found that Zeta-Cypermethrin decimated their numbers to almost zero with only a couple of sprays. As for your spray, I believe they would be very effective on tomatoes and beans here, but remember that here, in Ohio. I have found that Neem oil is only effective as a deterrent for 2 or 3 days here. Remember that my program was developed to treat my problems, which are probably somewhat different than yours. There is no end all treatment for everything. I suppose my main point was that Mancozeb is a good foundation to build upon. Spinosad is effective for some pests, but I'm not sure what you're treating. My program evolved through trial and error to manage my vines (and problems). With that said, what are your issues? One thing I suggest is to read every label of every product that you want to use and do research. I download the PDFs to my pc for quick reference. Several universities generate a lot of data available online. There may be an institution in your area that does research that will be valuable to you and they typically share freely. Here is Ohio we have several resources (ie, one being Ohio State) that does a ton of research in the fields of agriculture and viticulture. Do you have somewhere nearby that you can glean info from? I visit many sites when I'm resolving issues (plus I know some people). Sorry, I got wordy, but there is so much info to relay.

 

[Ricky2Guns]

No worries with being wordy it helps to eliminate additional questions. I’m not sure what I’m trying to fight off as they aren’t making themselves seen. Unlike the aphids on my apple trees what ever is eating my grape leaves are eating and running. Just want to make sure I get this resolved before my clusters mature.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

Post pictures and I'm sure folks will chime in. Different critters eat your grapes/leaves in different ways, so their handiwork may tell the story. A little eating don't bother me, but when they get greedy, I spray. Good luck with your venture.

 

[wxtrendsguy]

I went from drip system to sprinkler system for my backyard grapes (9 vines in all ). In just a day or two my Thompsons are showing what I believe is water stress. My Venessa and Cab-Sav look fine. I decided to go back to the drip system. El Paso’s weather is starting to transition to averages of 80degree mornings and 55 degree nights.

The drip system is set at 2gal per hr for 20 min Mon/Wed/Fri.
Are there any recommendations that differ?

View attachment 60101

Looks more like herbicide damage, possibly Roundup, maybe Dicamba (if in rural farming area). Water stress results in wilting...you are showing signs of herbicide damage based on the leaf curling

 

[Ricky2Guns]

Looks more like herbicide damage, possibly Roundup, maybe Dicamba (if in rural farming area). Water stress results in wilting...you are showing signs of herbicide damage based on the leaf curling

I haven't used any chemicals on the leaves, just a soapy water mixture. I cut all the bad leaves off so that I can monitor new leaves better. They're all doing fine now and I won't use that mixture again. Apparently, I left the vegetable oil out of the mix. Lesson learned, I've decided to go chemical for more long term care.