Home Vineyard for Central Illinois

[FutureFarm]

I'm hopefully planting out vines this coming spring in Central Illinois (halfway between Chicago and St. Louis). The plan is to plant the area west of the shed with vines. Rows would run N/S. Rows could start at 72' and go up to 144'. I have a few questions:

1: Without getting into an airblast sprayer, how many vines can 2 adults with 2 small kids really handle?

2: If you were planting for a red variety and a white variety, what would you plant? Probably need cold tolerant to at least -20. It was -30 with -45 wind chill 3 days last winter. Most winters see at least a few days of -10.

3: Based on your answers above, what trellising systems do you recommend?

3a: What do you recommend building the trellis from?

 

[VinesnBines]

To answer 1. My husband and I have just over two acres under vine. We do everything ourselves. I’ve read that one person can care for five acres. You do need a tractor Now, how much time can you devote to the vines? I suggest you try 200 to 300 vines and see how it goes.

2. Varieties? Look at the University of Minn hybrids. Marquette and LaCrosse for example. Be warned that they are cold hardy but break bud early so late frost will kill back the first shoots. Other MW growers can give better advice. I’m in Virginia and my suggestions will not be suitable for you.

3. The training system will depend on the variety. Go with the recommended training system. The experts do generally know best.

Good luck! Even on the worst day, I enjoy every minute in my vineyard. It is tremendous work but so satisfying! And I’m not talking about grapes or wine.

 

[Vern]

To answer 1. My husband and I have just over two acres under vine. We do everything ourselves. I’ve read that one person can care for five acres. You do need a tractor Now, how much time can you devote to the vines? I suggest you try 200 to 300 vines and see how it goes.

2. Varieties? Look at the University of Minn hybrids. Marquette and LaCrosse for example. Be warned that they are cold hardy but break bud early so late frost will kill back the first shoots. Other MW growers can give better advice. I’m in Virginia and my suggestions will not be suitable for you.

3. The training system will depend on the variety. Go with the recommended training system. The experts do generally know best.

Good luck! Even on the worst day, I enjoy every minute in my vineyard. It is tremendous work but so satisfying! And I’m not talking about grapes or wine.

These are only my thoughts, first determine how much wine you want to make. Plan on 4 bottles per vine. I would also research various varieties and taste these. You may also blend to your taste. I would suggest a high wire cordons spacing around 7 feet. Works well for me in northern Illinois.

 

[FutureFarm]

These are only my thoughts, first determine how much wine you want to make. Plan on 4 bottles per vine. I would also research various varieties and taste these. You may also blend to your taste. I would suggest a high wire cordons spacing around 7 feet. Works well for me in northern Illinois.

What material did you use for your trellis? I've seen treated fencepost but also read that you shouldn't use treated posts. Assuming the posts are 8' long, is burying them 3' deep to have a wire at 5' deep enough?

Also, what varieties are you growing? Are they doing well?

 

[Vern]

What material did you use for your trellis? I've seen treated fencepost but also read that you shouldn't use treated posts. Assuming the posts are 8' long, is burying them 3' deep to have a wire at 5' deep enough?

Also, what varieties are you growing? Are they doing well?

I used 10' treated post buried 4' deep. For wire it is #9 at 5'6". My reds are 25% marquette, 25% verona a d 50% petite pearl
Whites frontenac blanc and itasca
50/50. All do very well and are well received by friends. 9

 

[ChuckD]

I did plenty of “research” by visiting local vineyards/wineries and tasting their varietals and northern hybrid blends. Like Vern, for reds I settled on Marquette and Petite Pearl and added Frontenac. Whites are Brianna, Itasca, and I’ll be adding Frontenac Blanc next year. I’ll be at 104 vines next year with room for 32 more.

I decided to use “H” braced ends instead of angled posts with cables and earth anchors. It’s more work and expense but I like the look. I found a place locally (UP of MI) that sold 9’ tall treated white cedar posts. Cedar heartwood is naturally rot resistant but the sapwood is not… treated cedar should last a long time.

I have read that mature vines can produce 12 to 15 lbs of grapes. That’s almost a gallon of wine per vine!

I’m hoping for my first partial harvest next summer (year 3) on my Marquette and Petite Pearl.

 

[Rice_Guy]

My favorite red is Petite Pearl, most of the Marquette I have tasted has a flinty “ northern hybrid” flavor. In WisVinters Crimson Red has good reviews. I killed my Frontenac, very flinty very buggy, lots of pruning. Whites; I like Briana but if really ripe it is foxy. Itasca is high sugar so interesting. I would taste every variety before buying. I know the best variety selection will be different in ten years so expect to pull some varieties out? It is three hours but Prairie Vinters is good for sampling other varieties. Again taste makes or breaks good!

Your spray program will make or break your harvest. More foxy like Briana is somewhat resistant, without good spraying Itasca will yield zero.

Posts; I have eight foot from Home Depot, how tall are you? Your wife? Kids? You are doing this for convenience. ,,, The UofW demo fields has switched to eight hoot above ground.

 

[FutureFarm]

My favorite red is Petite Pearl, most of the Marquette I have tasted has a flinty “ northern hybrid” flavor. In WisVinters Crimson Red has good reviews. I killed my Frontenac, very flinty very buggy, lots of pruning. Whites; I like Briana but if really ripe it is foxy. Itasca is high sugar so interesting. I would taste every variety before buying. I know the best variety selection will be different in ten years so expect to pull some varieties out? It is three hours but Prairie Vinters is good for sampling other varieties. Again taste makes or breaks good!

Your spray program will make or break your harvest. More foxy like Briana is somewhat resistant, without good spraying Itasca will yield zero.

Posts; I have eight foot from Home Depot, how tall are you? Your wife? Kids? You are doing this for convenience. ,,, The UofW demo fields has switched to eight hoot above ground.

I'm a very average 5'10", wife is a very average 5'6", and the kids are 4 and 2 so their height will be changing all the time. We've always liked Cayuga White and it seems to work is several different styles. I'm just a little hesitant about its suitability. Most of the wineries around here don't seem to grow it even though they grow it further north. For the reds, we seem to like Frontenac, Foch, and Marquette.

 

[Rice_Guy]

. We've always liked Cayuga White . . . to like Frontenac, Foch, and Marquette.

this is your vineyard,, grow what you like. I don’t know anyone in Wis who is growing Cayuga, a guess is it would be marginal for our low temps. One can get away with growing sensitive varieties with protection, ex. Traverse City Mi along the lake grows vinifera.

 

[cmason1957]

I know that in some parts of Missouri Cayuga is grown successfully. Around the St. James area, which is just Southwest of St. Louis. You might also consider Chambourcin and/or Norton. Another interesting white that grows very well in MO and points North is La Crescent.

 

[Charles DeVier]

I use at least 9 foot post and put top wire 5 1/2 feet above ground. I also buy stainless steel dog bowls (Walmart $5) , paint them brown to stop shine and screw upside down on post tops to keep out water. Posts will last a lot longer. The horizontal brace between post is a 8 foot piece of 2 inch used oil well pipe. All wires are #9 galvanized with T-posts down the rows. Univ. of Missouri says put T-post 8 apart, but I think that is too close. I now place post 10 feet apart and like the results.
My main crop is Concord but I also grow a few table grapes- Somerset

Last year, the grapes leafed and bloomed, then got hit with that two days of killing frost. Everything green on the vines died and fell off. A week or more later, the vines sprouted new leaves, re-bloomed and I harvested a very nice yield of grapes. An aside, that frost killed every peach and apricot bloom on our seven trees; we did not even get one. mid-Missouri zone 6a-b

 

[FutureFarm]

4 Frontenac and 4 Frontenac Gris bare roots were delivered this morning. We are leaving town and not going to be back for 4 days. I'm also not convinced that we're done with killing frosts. Can/Should I plant these in 5 gallon buckets and transplant them again in May/June when I'm sure it won't frost again?

If I plant 2 parallel trellises, should they be 10' apart? With only 4 vines per trellis, what kind of end post do I need? Assuming these grow well, I'd like to expand in the future.

Can I build in the trellis this June/July if I stake the young vines when they get planted?

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[ChuckD]

I used 10foot spacing for the rows and 8 feet between the vines. I have “H”-braces ends but you won’t need that for so few vines. Get 9- foot end posts and bury them 4-feet deep and you should be OK. Add at least one line post every two vines to control sagging

You just need a simple stake for each vine this year. The trellis could wait until next summer.

With so few vines you could always cover them if frost is expected.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Can/Should I plant these in 5 gallon buckets and transplant them again in May/June when I'm sure it won't frost again?
If I plant 2 parallel trellises, should they be 10' apart? With only 4 vines per trellis,

* on year one you are trying to develop roots. The biggest need will be to have uniform soil moisture. April showers etc, ,, May showers make the root growth easier. That said actually watch the soil moisture, and air temperature , ,,, if it is hot/ dry in May like last year you will need to water several times a week.
I would hold the plants in a cool area with damp peat moss till it is convenient to plant and then get them in the ground so they can grow roots. June and August temperatures cause more moisture stress and lower survival.
* I put in 8 foot rows. At this point it would have been smart looking at how many passes of the lawn mower. I hate doing a four inch pass to get everything pretty. In Europe I saw rows at one meter. This works but forces manual maintenance. The local winery is sized to drive a Gator between rows with pick labor scrunched against the vines. ,,, ie don’t stress over round numbers.
* I did eight foot on the edges too. In hindsight this is too small. If I am spraying the grapes for Japanese beetles (a seven day pre harvest interval) I really don’t want drift onto the raspberries which are picked in July ,, strawberries in June, or Rhubarb in May, etc.
* I spaced plants at eight foot. It works. More vigorous types as concord have to get trimmed in summer. If I let them go they would have twenty foot arms.

 

[FutureFarm]

Thanks everyone. Holes were dug and vines were watered in with 1 gal per vine.
I think the plan is to let them grow as much as possible this first year and then select/tie the best cane to be the trunk once it goes dormant this fall.

 

[ChuckD]

Looks good. But don’t prune until early spring. You can actually wait until bud swell.

 

[FutureFarm]

Thought I'd post an update and a question:

Question: I was gifted the trellis wire and wire anchors from the link below. Will these be strong enough/last long enough for Frontenac and Frontenac Gris. I have 4 of each variety, planted 8' apart. Each variety is in its own row. My plan would be to put 6" diameter by 8' tall posts 30" deep. This would let me have the single wire at 5.5'. There would be a T Post in the middle to help support the weight. Is this robust enough. I live 1.5 miles from my in-laws who gifted me the wire and anchors, so I need to use them in a visible way. If they aren't robust enough for grapes, maybe I'll plant some raspberries and/or black berries.

https://www.amazon.com/Galvanized-S...hor+vise+grape+trellis+2+rolls,aps,132&sr=8-2

Update:
The grapes had a rough start. They really weren't growing as fast as I would have hoped/expected. One of them didn't break buds until late June. Another was completely stripped of leaves due to Japanese Beetles. It has somewhat recovered. Now that they're above the grow tubes 3 of the 8 are showing deer damage.

 

[Hazelemere]

Thought I'd post an update and a question:

Question: I was gifted the trellis wire and wire anchors from the link below. Will these be strong enough/last long enough for Frontenac and Frontenac Gris. I have 4 of each variety, planted 8' apart. Each variety is in its own row. My plan would be to put 6" diameter by 8' tall posts 30" deep. This would let me have the single wire at 5.5'. There would be a T Post in the middle to help support the weight. Is this robust enough. I live 1.5 miles from my in-laws who gifted me the wire and anchors, so I need to use them in a visible way. If they aren't robust enough for grapes, maybe I'll plant some raspberries and/or black berries.

https://www.amazon.com/Galvanized-Stainless-Tightening-Trellises-Vineyards/dp/B0BHQWMPH5/ref=sr_1_2?crid=191DF2VIHIJ9A&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.qqT6HGHhfmywNtMzzni7fzCnWlu0G4u8l5d-Y56vYYV-9gf33I26Q2hwb6up7r0nsjqVFOWBzyqgTQLLOspkCZf9U3UafQCYm3fWqqxpVKCFgHMqYQ-Mp-fvRVss4JeA3VFGuUCcUMHKwlUiAgdfbZS9Pi4Ux_bEIRCw0IZYioVWSHMedObA-oKQvfK41mN89wsGOZJz1ekDXp49DbSlWP5dY6Md5m9gFuA5EsA5lazGqROhQVbMUt6_crVtV4dUWKdsYg_7uc8H6-kcBnnvbVXRnt8zjive0nExTfy8JKc.GAyFnHpKI8G8PnXR0JoNzXbrljCrinz2gSM2upl5dmY&dib_tag=se&keywords=chumia+8+pcs+anchor+wire+vise+anchor+vise+grape+trellis+2+rolls&qid=1725665650&sprefix=chumia+8+pcs+anchor+wire+vise+anchor+vise+grape+trellis+2+rolls,aps,132&sr=8-2

Update:
The grapes had a rough start. They really weren't growing as fast as I would have hoped/expected. One of them didn't break buds until late June. Another was completely stripped of leaves due to Japanese Beetles. It has somewhat recovered. Now that they're above the grow tubes 3 of the 8 are showing deer damage.

they look okay. Let them develop the way they want - roots and canes (I'd let 2 canes grow)

 

[ChuckD]

That’s not bad growth for year one. None of my grapes hit the top wire until year two.

The trellis wire you have is good. I like the adjustable strainers for maintaining wire tension but the wire vice devices should be fine for such short runs.

 

[Rice_Guy]

12.5 gauge should work. There have been repairs on every trellis system I have seen that is a decade old. When you get down to it, restringing wire isn’t hard.

Japanese beetles love grapes. I spray with Seven whenever the populations build up. Deer? I haven’t had a problem. Rabbits, ,,, I put a hardware cloth tube around young grapes and apples in winter #1.