How many of you don't check sulfite levels before bottling?

[Scooter68]

I don't do any measurements on my wine other than pH and SG. I go by the basic process of racking every 3 months and bottle typically after 12 months or slightly longer. If it's been more than 2 months since the last racking/L-Meta addition I will add sulfite then. Less than two months I might add 1/2 or 1/3 of the normal K-Meta dosage.
This is a hobby for me that I've already spent way more in equipment than I orginally expected BUT, if there was a simple way or inexpensive measurement device that didn't involve interpreting something other than a dial, digital read out I might try it. Otherwise my current process works for me so no need to change.

 

[King Hostile]

This question was asked on another site and I was surprised of the responses.

I never have but I am not against learning anything new or helpful.

 

[Joe_Sallo]

And the question was about checking sulfite levels, not using sulfites at all. I have never checked sulfite levels because I don't have the equipment. However I always add sulfite at approximately the traditional dosage/schedule, including before bottling. Not the most precise method, but I've never had a batch go bad in the bottle. Presumably the traditional schedule is a bit heavy handed, and I could get away with less sulfite if I tested, but I've never seen any reason to bother.

Edit: Anecdata: I've done mostly juice buckets/kits for the last few years, but I recently opened a an 8 year old bottle of peach wine that I had forgotten in a corner, and it was still fine despite being sweetened and low on acidity and tannin. My understanding is that it's important to have sulfite enough to scavenge all the oxygen introduced in racking plus a little extra. How much extra doesn't matter all that much as long as you've got enough.

I did that too initially, i used the 1/4 teaspoon per 5 gallons at rack but also racked way too often so my total sulfite was probably higher than it needed to be. I have a good pH meter and a vinmetrica now so its pretty easy to measure and correct, barrels lose sulfite at faster rate than carboys so it something I want to measure. If I was just using carboys and didnt have the ability to measure I would do 1/4 teaspoon / 5 gallons at first rack and 1/8 on subsequent racks and at bottling.

 

[Bts]

...so my total sulfite was probably higher than it needed to be.

I'm curious if you(or anyone for that matter) ever tasted "too much sulfite" and can describe what it tastes like. I've heard metallic, and I've tasted metallic in a number of my wines, but some of those wines were juice buckets being racked out of primary having never seen a single dose of kmeta. I thought the detectable threshold was pretty high, but re-googling that says it's detectable at 50ppm(about 1/4 tsp per carboy) if you have a very sensitive palate(not me). Presumably much of each addition is used up, and you can apparently get rid of more by decanting it for a while, but that's still kind of a low threshold. I'm only doing a couple carboys a year, and I've tended to push the racking >3 months and bottle in the 6-9 month range, so I'm at the low end of what the traditional dosage schedule can produce, but interesting to know that I may be a lot closer to the detectable limit than I thought.

 

[Rice_Guy]

I could be testing more since I don’t have a feel for what is normal, ,,, and a project is to improve technique by doing background hazard analysis for critical control points. HACCP, ,,, maybe next year
From what I have seen usually a white has consumed available SO2 and a red will have some left. The simplified solution so far is to assume I need 100% of the goal.

I don't have the capability, nor the inclination to test sulfite levels at any time.

 

[Rice_Guy]

most folks will not pick up on it, in my circle the wife of a Vinters club member will taste it so maybe one in 50 are sensitive to low levels of SO2. Another factor is most folks don’t have the language to name what this defect is, I used to laugh at descriptions that would show up in the customer complaint line.
Yes I have done it to myself when dosing 100ppm in a cherry that caught a film former.

I'm curious if you(or anyone for that matter) ever tasted "too much sulfite". I thought the detectable threshold was pretty high, but re-googing that says it's detectable at 50ppm(about 1/4 tsp per carboy) if you have a very sensitive palate(not me).

 

[winemaker81]

I acquired the ability to test for SO2 with the intention of using it for all of my sulfite adjustments, including at bottling time. The reality is that I seldom use the testing equipment for testing SO2 at any time other than at bottling time.............

How much of a difference does the SO2 testing typically make in the quantity of K-meta added at bottling time? Or does it vary widely?

 

[Johnd]

How much of a difference does the SO2 testing typically make in the quantity of K-meta added at bottling time? Or does it vary widely?

It really depends upon what's been done to the wine (in terms of sulfite) up until bottling time. As I've gotten comfy with the general stability of my wine, I've cut WAY back on my sulfiting, not anywhere close to the 1/4 tsp / 6 gallons / 3 months rule that we use. In fact, I have three carboys of wine left from last years press that didn't fit in a barrel, they were sulfited in December after MLF, a stopper installed, and it hasn't been pulled off since. I suspect that wine would need a much bigger dose to get to bottling levels than if I'd been keeping up with the sulfiting even on an irregular basis. I'm not advocating for not using sulfite, I just get lazy and haven't had any problems as a result, so keep pushing the envelope.

Wine in a barrel is a bit of a different story, I try to keep up with that every two - three months. Got those little fizzy sulfite dosage packs to use for the barrels, they usually get a 1/2 dose (based of volume) when I top up every 2-3 months. I rarely open the barrels, so it doesn't usually take a full dose to get them to bottling levels.

 

[nynethead]

I never use sulfates my wife is allergic. I have been making 100-150 gallons a year for more than 10 years both white and red and use barrels and have never had an issue

 

[winemaker81]

haven't had any problems as a result, so keep pushing the envelope.

I appreciate that -- it's not broken, so don't fix it.

There were a couple of wines I forgot to sulfite at bottling. They were good for the 2 to 3 years in the bottle before the last was consumed, although all were sulfited at each post-fermentation racking, so SO2 was certainly present. I consider that the old rule of thumb (1/4 tsp per 5/6 gallons) may be over stated, although some of the guys that taught me were not really tight on hygiene, so it may be that higher sulfite levels addressed that problem.

I looked at test kits -- they were either somewhat pricey or, in a few cases, stated that they were accurate within +/- 30 ppm for red wines. Unless I'm REALLY over-doing the sulfite, those kits don't provide any real value (IMO).

This topic requires more thought on my part.

I never use sulfates my wife is allergic.

How is the shelf life on your wine?

The "organic" wines I purchased that had a short shelf life were all non-sulfite, so I attributed the lack of longevity to the lack of sulfite. In hindsight I consider that there may have been reasons other than lack of sulfite.

 

[Johnd]

I appreciate that -- it's not broken, so don't fix it.

There were a couple of wines I forgot to sulfite at bottling. They were good for the 2 to 3 years in the bottle before the last was consumed, although all were sulfited at each post-fermentation racking, so SO2 was certainly present. I consider that the old rule of thumb (1/4 tsp per 5/6 gallons) may be over stated, although some of the guys that taught me were not really tight on hygiene, so it may be that higher sulfite levels addressed that problem.

I looked at test kits -- they were either somewhat pricey or, in a few cases, stated that they were accurate within +/- 30 ppm for red wines. Unless I'm REALLY over-doing the sulfite, those kits don't provide any real value (IMO).

This topic requires more thought on my part.


How is the shelf life on your wine?

The "organic" wines I purchased that had a short shelf life were all non-sulfite, so I attributed the lack of longevity to the lack of sulfite. In hindsight I consider that there may have been reasons other than lack of sulfite.

My shelf life has been fine, I've got kit wines that are 7 and doing just fine. They're not exceptional wines, but there's been no degradation as a result of sulfite deficiency, just mediocre wine getting too old. Most of those wines were bottled when I was using the old 1/4 tsp per 6 gallons every three months rule, so I suspect that the sulfite was on the higher end of the scale.

When I started to make grape wine, I got the Vinmetrica and use that for pH, TA and SO2 testing, all of those wines have been bottled with sulfite adjusted at bottling in accordance with the pH of each individual wine. Those wine vintages started in 2015-ish, so there's not much "old wine" history to draw from on those bottles. But even at 5 years, I think they are still improving every year.

 

[Joe_Sallo]

I'm curious if you(or anyone for that matter) ever tasted "too much sulfite" and can describe what it tastes like. I've heard metallic, and I've tasted metallic in a number of my wines, but some of those wines were juice buckets being racked out of primary having never seen a single dose of kmeta. I thought the detectable threshold was pretty high, but re-googling that says it's detectable at 50ppm(about 1/4 tsp per carboy) if you have a very sensitive palate(not me). Presumably much of each addition is used up, and you can apparently get rid of more by decanting it for a while, but that's still kind of a low threshold. I'm only doing a couple carboys a year, and I've tended to push the racking >3 months and bottle in the 6-9 month range, so I'm at the low end of what the traditional dosage schedule can produce, but interesting to know that I may be a lot closer to the detectable limit than I thought.

My brother can taste it better than I. Its sort of a sharp, metallic taste but if your wine tastes good and keeps as long as you want it to you did what you need to do, right? My background is measurement and control so I want to know. I guess I could make a solution of sulfite and add it to a glass of wine I like and measured bit by bit until I notice it then measure again to see what my threshold is. But that would be 1 data point specific to me. That said, now Im curious...

 

[stickman]

When you add sulfite to wine and taste immediately, the wine will often taste like sulfite, sometimes a little bitter metallic, but the effect on taste goes away as the sulfite binds with the wine components.

 

[DPCellars]

I approach home winemaking like a caveman. Pick, crush, ferment, press, age, pray. The last part is a add-on, because I am pretty sure religion wasn't around when the cave people were living large.

At any rate, the last two years, I have taken my wine, post fermentation, to the wine lab to get a wine panel done. I have all these fancy numbers that I cannot understand. I was told they are all falling within the parameters where they need to be, so I just let it go. Aside from tossing in some oak for some S&Gs, I add nothing. So far, I have lucked out. I am sure that once I expand and start playing with other grape varietals, I may get bit in the myself (I am an ass), at which point, I will be scouring the boards looking for salvation.