How to sparge bottle headspace just prior to cork insertion

[chonn]

Bottle sparging seems easy - I have the air wand, you fill the bottle with co2 and then immediately fill with wine.

But I don't understand how to effectively, with a real, repeatable process, displace the headspace in the bottle just prior to cork insertion.

Commercial bottlers do this in a vacuum, I have read ... but I can't do that.

The best I can come up with is:

Place bottle in corker, shoot a shot of co2 THROUGH the corker into the headspace and then QUICK PRESS THE CORK IN!

(my corker is this one: Table Top Corker | MoreWine )

This is just a coin flip. It's not a repeatable process. I really don't like it ... but I can't think of anything else.

Is there a "good" way to do this with small scale equipment ?

 

[Jim Welch]

Due to the fact that gases readily and immediately mix I’m of the opinion that what you propose is wasting your time. Corks allow a very tiny amount of oxygen to permeate also over time so if O2 exclusion is your aim a better path would be to use just enough Meta K to protect the wine.

 

[chonn]

Due to the fact that gases readily and immediately mix I’m of the opinion that what you propose is wasting your time. Corks allow a very tiny amount of oxygen to permeate also over time so if O2 exclusion is your aim a better path would be to use just enough Meta K to protect the wine.

Well, I don't need to go so far as barring the long-term aging process of oxygen flow through the cork ...

I am just talking about the 2 inches of headspace just prior to inserting the cork.

I'm a smart and creative person and I cannot see an effective, repeatable process for removing that headspace using normal household/shop tools ...

It seems like professional vacuum corking is the only way to go but ... wanted to know if anyone had other ideas or experience.

Thanks.

 

[Jim Welch]

As a long time beer brewer when I enter kegged beer in competitions I “cap on the foam” for that itty bitty extra edge but generally only do that with 6 bottles or so. You could put the end of the gas line into the wine in your bottle and with the regulator set to a low pressure see if the wine foams up a bit and if so fill the headspace with your inert gas bubbles then quickly cork it “on the foam”.
Argon would be a better choice for this since it practically doesn’t go into solution but since you have CO2 you could try it. Not much should go into solution as long as you work quickly.

 

[chonn]

OK so actually ... the answer here is probably the same as the answer in my other thread about headspace in big containers ... and would require needles ...

So I would cork, then immediately insert a flowing co2 needle on the edge of the cork, then insert a second needle on the opposite edge of the cork attached to nothing ... I would then be outflowing co2 out the second needle and all I would need to do is yank the outflow needle, what a half-beat, then yank the inflow needle.

Low output pressure ... wouldn't want to create bottle bombs ... but the above WOULD WORK.

And also would be difficult ... too small of a needle and you'd risk snapping it on the side of the cork and too large a needle and you might start pushing the cork further into the bottle ... also, other than sports ball needles I don't know where to get these and I think you'd want one a bit smaller gauge than a ball filler ...

 

[sour_grapes]

Due to the fact that gases readily and immediately mix I’m of the opinion that what you propose is wasting your time. Corks allow a very tiny amount of oxygen to permeate also over time so if O2 exclusion is your aim a better path would be to use just enough Meta K to protect the wine.

As the guy who always points out that gases readily mix, I think the above quote is too strong a statement. It takes on the order of minutes for gases to mix. You can displace much of the air in the ullage region by blowing CO2 or argon in there. One should introduce the gas with a low velocity to minimize turbulence.

Personally, I am not concerned about the amount of O2 left in the ullage.

 

[David Violante]

COULD this work? I believe it could.

As someone who thoroughly appreciates where you're coming from, I think you're overthinking the necessity for doing so. Also, the time you spend with one bottle is allowing the mixing of gasses in the other containers, and it's going to take some time to do from one bottle to the next. With 5 or 6 bottles that's not a lot of time but with a few cases it could add up. I personally have become less and less concerned about that small space as long as you're not spending all day with it open before corking.

I do appreciate you thinking about it though!

 

[Jim Welch]

Fair point @sour_grapes, poorly worded on my part. I wasn’t trying to imply gases fully mix immediately but they do begin to mix immediately. I’m not concerned with the O2 in the ullage either provided it isn’t excessive. Here’s an interesting video illustrating gas diffusion for anyone interested.

 

[bstnh1]

I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone on this forum or any other wine making site mention that the small amount of air/oxygen under their properly corked wine caused it to have some negative effect on the wine. And we're talking probably millions of bottles I would guess.

 

[sour_grapes]

Great video, thanks for sharing it!

 

[cmason1957]

OK so actually ... the answer here is probably the same as the answer in my other thread about headspace in big containers ... and would require needles ...

So I would cork, then immediately insert a flowing co2 needle on the edge of the cork, then insert a second needle on the opposite edge of the cork attached to nothing ... I would then be outflowing co2 out the second needle and all I would need to do is yank the outflow needle, what a half-beat, then yank the inflow needle.

Low output pressure ... wouldn't want to create bottle bombs ... but the above WOULD WORK.

And also would be difficult ... too small of a needle and you'd risk snapping it on the side of the cork and too large a needle and you might start pushing the cork further into the bottle ... also, other than sports ball needles I don't know where to get these and I think you'd want one a bit smaller gauge than a ball filler ...

If you poke two holes in your cork to introduce CO2 and allow the air to get out, don't you end up with two holes in your corks that air can get into once you remove the needles? I think unless you can do the input of CO2 (or Argon) into the bottle, then fill the bottle with wine under vacuum, you are fighting a losing battle. Also, consider how long you might be planning to age your wines, versus how long a winery might think folks will be aging their wines. That has to have some impact on the final decision. For me, the decision is simple. Fill the bottle using my All in one wine pump, under vacuum, put the cork in fairly quickly, move to the next bottle, don't worry about it.

 

[chonn]

If you poke two holes in your cork to introduce CO2 and allow the air to get out, don't you end up with two holes in your corks that air can get into once you remove the needles? I think unless you can do the input of CO2 (or Argon) into the bottle, then fill the bottle with wine under vacuum, you are fighting a losing battle. Also, consider how long you might be planning to age your wines, versus how long a winery might think folks will be aging their wines. That has to have some impact on the final decision. For me, the decision is simple. Fill the bottle using my All in one wine pump, under vacuum, put the cork in fairly quickly, move to the next bottle, don't worry about it.

No, not holes poked *into* the cork, but alongside the cork ... so no puncturing involved.

There are other tools (commercial single-glass-serving for restaurants) that do a needle alongside the cork and it sounds like it works well.

 

[Cap Puncher]

I use argon and flush the top right before I put the cork. I have a 0.5 micron filter (cheap on amazon) that attaches to my tubing. The hard plastic tip fits nicely in the neck of a wine bottle. 1. Get your bottle in your floor corker with the cork already loaded. 2. Push bottle down and tilt the bottle to allow putting in the filter tip of the argon. 3. I let the argon run at 5psi for a 5 seconds in the neck of the bottle. 4. Slowly load back in to the floor corker guide. 5. Drive in the cork.

I agree it won't get out all the O2 but it may decrease it quite a bit. Is it worth it? Not sure, but I have doing it for a while. I should do a test, one with one without, uncork after 6 months, note the aromatics and measure the free SO2 for a difference. Of note, I don't do this if I had a corrected sulfur issue because being too reductive can cause that reaction to reverse (if copper was used).

 

[chonn]

@Cap Puncher - thanks for that description.

I bottled yesterday and I loaded the bottle into the bottler *first*, then used my bottle sparger *through* the top of the bottler and dumped in argon and then QUICKDROPINTHECORKANDPLUNGE.

I think I like your method slightly more and may try that next year.

 

[wood1954]

Use twist caps instead of corks and you reduce the ullage to almost nothing.

 

[vinny]

I am curious as to WHY. Are you not using sulphites? Are you hoping to age this out 5-7-10+ years?

I'm not trying to detract from your efforts, just understand why you are trying to eliminate a variable that is not effecting the majority of winemakers here.

 

[vinny]

Bottle sparging seems easy - I have the air wand, you fill the bottle with co2 and then immediately fill with wine.

Seems logical to me that because it is heavier than air the CO2 (or Argon) will rise in the bottle as it is filled with wine. Your heaviest concentration of CO2 will be in the bottom of the bottle. As the bottle fills, mixed gas is pushed out the top leaving straight CO2 in the neck as you cork. Seems to me you could fill 5 bottles with gas and as you fill with wine, cork immediately.

Check out 1:35 in the video to demonstrate how slowly a gas will mix with air.

 

[Rice_Guy]

It is easy to pull a vacuum, why not cork under a vacuum?

I would like to thank our own member of Wine Making Talk - Rice_Guy for making this article on how to make a Vacuum Wine Corker for 5 DOLLARS ! It was in April /May issue of Wine maker MagazineView attachment 53837

That said if you use natural or agglomerate cork, why bother? natural cork will breath about 5mg oxygen per year.