How to work out the amount of wine between racking

[artooks]

Hi Everyone,

Up until now, I have been using my 100 liter (26.5) Gallon tank for wine making it has a variable capacity lid which makes it super easy to manage the volume between rankings, I am about to start into country wine, I would like to make a Skeeter Pee and DB but there is one thing that I cannot work out. Lets say I would like to make a 6 Gallon batch if I start with a 7-8 Gallon bucket how much wine should I make so if I rack it twice I will be left with a full 6 Gallon carboy, I am sure with the first racking there will be a lot of lees and sediment that will be removed so the 1 st and 2nd racking amount how should it be calculated, how much does each racking leave behind ?

 

[winemaker81]

You make what you hope is an educated guess.

If you are making essentially juice, start with 27 liters to fill a 23 liter carboy. If making fruit, take the volume of water you started with and and a percentage based upon the juiciness of the fruit. Some fruit have a lot of sediment so you have to take that into account.

Even with grapes it's a guessing game. Last year I grossed 21.5 gallons from 8 lugs of Grenache, and 18.5 gallons from 8 lugs of Tempranillo.

I wish I had a better answer.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Every crop is going to be different. Even within a crop how you process it will change the suspended dirt. Example processing apples with an apple grinder yields a lot of fine particulate where as freeze several days > thaw produces a very clean juice. Sodium versus calcium bentonite clays is another example. Time/ patience also reduces the loss. ,, And I laugh when I see tomato.

Skeeter pee is done with commercial juice which has been filtered > evaporated > reconstituted so the suspended fine particulate is minimal. ie your lees represent mainly yeast cells. A DB made with commercial concentrates will mainly represent yeast.

 

[winemaker81]

I wrote a description of what I do to reduce wine loss during racking. While it won't help figure out how much to make, there are things we can do to minimize volume loss.

 

[artooks]

I wrote a description of what I do to reduce wine loss during racking. While it won't help figure out how much to make, there are things we can do to minimize volume loss.

Thanks a lot I am trying to work out how many vessels do I need to do it properly I have a 30 liter primary and a 19 liter carboy do I need small vessels also ?

 

[winemaker81]

Thanks a lot I am trying to work out how many vessels do I need to do it properly I have a 30 liter primary and a 19 liter carboy do I need small vessels also ?

There is no such thing as too many containers. I have many containers from 125 ml and up. Screwcap bottles work fine in this context IF you are 100% positive the ferment is done. #2 or #3 drilled stoppers (can't remember which) fit wine bottles.

 

[artooks]

There is no such thing as too many containers. I have many containers from 125 ml and up. Screwcap bottles work fine in this context IF you are 100% positive the ferment is done. #2 or #3 drilled stoppers (can't remember which) fit wine bottles.

I understand but after doing many times you probably know which vessels between rackings, I am mainly asking for DB and Skeeter Pee if you opt for 19 liter carboy what would be the starting liter 23 liter in the primary does this give 19 liters lets say after 2-3 rankings ?

 

[winemaker81]

I understand but after doing many times you probably know which vessels between rackings, I am mainly asking for DB and Skeeter Pee if you opt for 19 liter carboy what would be the starting liter 23 liter in the primary does this give 19 liters lets say after 2-3 rankings ?

Going by the typical 23 liter kit (no skin packs), after first racking and second racking after clearing, the carboy is typically down 1.5 to 2.5 bottles, e.g., roughly 1 to 2 liters. Since (as David [ @Rice_Guy ] stated) sediment from SP will be primarily yeast, you can go by kit volume for SP. If you have a 19 liter carboy, start with a volume of at least 21 liters -- I'd go 22 just to be sure. Better to have too much than too little.

Since the most successful SP appears to have a fair amount of the lemon juice added post-fermentation, you need to take that into account, e.g., if you're adding 1 liter of lemon juice for fermentation and 3 liters post fermentation, start with 19 liters of liquid (including first liter of juice), as you'll add 3 liters later.

For DB? Plan for 22 liters of liquid + whatever fruit you have. This is going to be a guessing game, as I have no idea what fruit you are using. Measure the volume of your fruit and add 21 or 22 liters of water to it.

There may not be a better answer.

I fill two 54 liter barrels each fall, making 8 lug batches for each. In English, the barrels are 14.25 US gallons, and for each I gross somewhere between 17 and 21.5 US gallons of wine, depending on varietal and year. I lose about 10% volume to evaporation through the wood, so I need a minimum of 15.75 gallons of wine to keep the barrels full. I use 8 lugs (288 lbs) of grapes to ensure I have plenty -- I could probably make 7 lugs, but if I have a bad year for any reason, I'm short and scraping for wine to top a barrel. So I make more than I know I'll need to ensure I have enough.

Moving from kits, juice buckets, and any form of winemaking with a set volume to situations where the volume depends on the whims of Mother Nature and Dionysus brings an entirely new set of issues to winemaking. After a while it becomes normal.

 

[winemaker81]

I read one of your posts too quickly. My last reply may be sufficient, but in case it's not -- Do your best planning for space, but make allowance for too much and too little wine.

Too much wine? Have a bunch of smaller containers and fit them as best you can.

Too little? This happens. I wrote a post describing ideas for handling it.

One of the reasons I write these posts as these questions come up semi-frequently, so it's easier to write my answer once and then refer back to it. Productivity through laziness!

 

[artooks]

I read one of your posts too quickly. My last reply may be sufficient, but in case it's not -- Do your best planning for space, but make allowance for too much and too little wine.

Too much wine? Have a bunch of smaller containers and fit them as best you can.

Too little? This happens. I wrote a post describing ideas for handling it.

One of the reasons I write these posts as these questions come up semi-frequently, so it's easier to write my answer once and then refer back to it. Productivity through laziness!

Thank you very much this is really helpful, I am planning to do the same as DB requires, Raspberry,Blueberry and blackberry, so whatever I do I will use the fruit and add 22 l water as you say it is better to have more then less.how do you seal wine bottles that are used as a vessel ?

 

[Rice_Guy]

HOW
1) put a normal airlock on with a cork ,, #4?
2) put a cork in the bottle and attach a tube which can lead into a glass of water (essentially making your own airlock)
3) put on a tight fitting latex balloon or one of the new silicone bottle covers ((a balloon will leak enough that gas gets out)
4) a check valve in a cork pump a vacuum on the bottle or a VacuVin stopper (head space will fill with CO2

9) enjoy a glass or two of DB

 

[winemaker81]

I mentioned previously that you can use screwcap bottles IF AND ONLY IF fermentation is 100% done and the wine is done degassing. Unrated bottles (which is everything except champagne bottles) cannot safely handle any pressure and can explode, so use screwcaps only if you're 100% positive.

Another thought is to put a cork in the bottle -- just 1/4" in to secure it. If you have any pressure, it will blow out, a safety measure. Never secure a cork in a standard bottle, for the previously mentioned reasons.

1) put a normal airlock on with a cork ,, #4?

I looked it up -- #2 stoppers fit standard wine bottles. They're too small to have the size imprinted on them, and look like this?




I've been making wine a long time, so I've collected stoppers of every size you can imagine, and probably have stoppers that fit containers I disposed of long ago. I tend to buy a bunch of common sizes, such as #2 for bottles, although the universal stoppers fit a bottle if turned upside down.

Note that it's necessary to have a bunch of airlocks, which I've also collected.

 

[artooks]

I mentioned previously that you can use screwcap bottles IF AND ONLY IF fermentation is 100% done and the wine is done degassing. Unrated bottles (which is everything except champagne bottles) cannot safely handle any pressure and can explode, so use screwcaps only if you're 100% positive.

Another thought is to put a cork in the bottle -- just 1/4" in to secure it. If you have any pressure, it will blow out, a safety measure. Never secure a cork in a standard bottle, for the previously mentioned reasons.



I looked it up -- #2 stoppers fit standard wine bottles. They're too small to have the size imprinted on them, and look like this?

View attachment 105945


I've been making wine a long time, so I've collected stoppers of every size you can imagine, and probably have stoppers that fit containers I disposed of long ago. I tend to buy a bunch of common sizes, such as #2 for bottles, although the universal stoppers fit a bottle if turned upside down.

Note that it's necessary to have a bunch of airlocks, which I've also collected.

View attachment 105944

Thanks alot,

So roughly for a Skeeter Pee and DB I will have a 30 liter bucket primary fermentor, a 19 liter carboy and lets assume that I am going to make more just to be on the safe side do I need to compensate the rest with wine bottles or do I also need 5 liter and some vessel which are smaller then wine bottles ?

 

[winemaker81]

Thanks alot,

So roughly for a Skeeter Pee and DB I will have a 30 liter bucket primary fermentor, a 19 liter carboy and lets assume that I am going to make more just to be on the safe side do I need to compensate the rest with wine bottles or do I also need 5 liter and some vessel which are smaller then wine bottles ?

While the wine is degassing, you can have headspace. I buy Carlo Rossi wines in 4 liter jugs, and keep the jugs for the winery. Post clearing, move to smaller containers.

EDIT: auto-destroy on the phone lived up to it's name. I think my post now makes sense .....

 

[artooks]

HOW
1) put a normal airlock on with a cork ,, #4?
2) put a cork in the bottle and attach a tube which can lead into a glass of water (essentially making your own airlock)
3) put on a tight fitting latex balloon or one of the new silicone bottle covers ((a balloon will leak enough that gas gets out)
4) a check valve in a cork pump a vacuum on the bottle or a VacuVin stopper (head space will fill with CO2

9) enjoy a glass or two of DB

Thank you very much

 

[Jovimaple]

I use small universal bungs turned upside down, with an airlock, on bottles.

 

[artooks]

I use small universal bungs turned upside down, with an airlock, on bottles.

View attachment 105946

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Raptor99]

I use small universal bungs turned upside down, with an airlock, on bottles.

I tried that, but the universal bungs that I purchased have a tapered hole for the airlock. That makes the airlock fit better, but you can't put the airlock in from the other end of the bung. So I use #2 stoppers.

 

[Newbie Mel]

I have a #3 in this bourbon bottle

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

I don’t lose a lot of wine on racking. I will press my must when it’s fermenting and strain and squeeze it well at initial racking to secondar. Even heavy pulp fruit wines I only lose a little. I usually will do a 2 1/4 gallon batch to get a full 2 gallons. Don’t be tossing out good wine needlessly on racking.

if it‘s runny instead of paste consistency there’s Valuable potential wine in there.

I usually have an empty 1.75 liter bottle, litre, and a split available for less than 1 gallon at racking. I’ll just drill a regular cork to fit an airlock.