Hugelkultur for grapes?

[BigDaveK]

I know, this is really a fringe growing technique but it's centuries old.
I made a couple test beds last year and I was pretty happy. I'm going to add more this year.

For the uninitiated, you dig a shallow trench and make a mound of logs, branches, yard waste, top it with some compost and then the soil removed at the beginning. It essentially becomes a mini compost pile. It retains moisture reducing watering, is a bit warmer because of the microbes, and becomes a nutrient rich garden bed. The mound will become a hump in 3-4 years. Of course you need a source of yard waste and I have boatloads every year. I don't burn. Some goes through the chipper shredder and on to a compost pile I manage. (It gets harder and harder to turn the piles every year! Jeeze louise!) And some goes to a corner of the property for Mother Nature to manage - takes about 5 or so years for Her.

Just wondering if anyone has knowledge of this being done for grapes.

My plan is to make a small experimental bed for a dozen or so vines this year and do the planting next year.

Just what I need - something ELSE that requires infinite patience.

 

[VinesnBines]

Generally too much nitrogen is discouraged when growing grapes. Green, lush and vigorous vines do not produce good crops. The savvy viticulturist looks for the poorest, rockiest ground for a vineyard. That said, grapes do need nitrogen. That balance can be tricky.

Here is an article from Cornell about adding compost to the vineyard. https://www.arec.vaes.vt.edu/conten...ion/growers/documents/compost-application.pdf

 

[Ohio Bob]

From a gardening perspective I thought wood chips were a nitrogen scavenger, retarding plant growth. Useful for pathways but not as a mulch capable of releasing nutrients into the ground. More of a weed blocker because they don’t break down readily. Am I thinking of something else?

 

[ChuckD]

The savvy viticulturist looks for the poorest, rockiest ground for a vineyard.

So you’re saying I have a chance then!

Seriously, the ground I’m breaking for my vineyard is some of the rockiest ground I have. To plant grass between the rows you don’t pick rocks, you get a really heavy roller and push them down!

 

[ChuckD]

From a gardening perspective I thought wood chips were a nitrogen scavenger, retarding plant growth. Useful for pathways but not as a mulch capable of releasing nutrients into the ground. More of a weed blocker because they don’t break down readily. Am I thinking of something else?

I think you’re right. Woody high carbon material Is a nitrogen sink while decomposing. Not sure how this will work long-term though. Just as the vines are getting ready to produce are the rotting logs going to start enriching the soil? I’ll be interested in the results.

 

[BigDaveK]

VinesnBines thank you so much for the article!

I've seen pictures of vineyards in places where you wouldn't grow other crops. That concern was in the back of my mind - would I have healthy vines but no fruit? Or would the soil become too "healthy" for grapes?

As far the effects of wood chips, that's another area where there are too many experts. I do know that the rates of decomposition are dramatically different between surface chips and those in the soil where the microbes are hopping around. In my own hugelkultur bed the branches at the core are soft, almost mushy, after a year. Most proponents of hugelkultur say you can plant immediately but suggest waiting a year before you get serious.

As for nitrogen, being organic I try to supply my own. I drink a lot of coffee.

Since there seems to be no information about hugelkultur and grape vines I guess I'll just have to experiment. I'll let you know how it works out - in 3 or 4 years.

 

[VinesnBines]

So you’re saying I have a chance then!

Seriously, the ground I’m breaking for my vineyard is some of the rockiest ground I have. To plant grass between the rows you don’t pick rocks, you get a really heavy roller and push them down!

The rockier the better for a vineyard. Limestone is perfect.
Here are a couple articles that you might like.
https://winemakermag.com/technique/dirt-dont-lie-the-impact-of-soil-on-vineyards-and-winehttps://vinepair.com/wine-blog/why-does-bad-soil-make-for-great-wine/
Grapes need to send roots deep so irrigation is discouraged if there is adequate rain (roughly an average of an inch per week). Vigor needs to be controlled, lush tall vines need to be summer pruned or hedged so the vine sends the energy and nutrients to make good quality grapes. Too rich of soil will produce great looking vines but very little fruit and lesser quality fruit.

From a gardening perspective I thought wood chips were a nitrogen scavenger, retarding plant growth. Useful for pathways but not as a mulch capable of releasing nutrients into the ground. More of a weed blocker because they don’t break down readily. Am I thinking of something else?

It is not advisable to use wood chips in the garden unless they are decomposed or if used for pathways or mulch, well aged. Fresh wood chips will tie up the nitrogen as they decompose and will be detrimental to the plants. Aged wood ships are fine for trees and shrubs but not flowers and vegetables.
https://pss.uvm.edu/ppp/articles/woodchips.html

 

[CortneyD]

I too would say that hugelkultur would give those vines more nutrients than they really need- grow those grapes hard and without a lot of TLC.
I think hugelkultur works like gangbusters for other more needy perennials (soft fruits/rhubarb/etc) or as a way to keep raised veggie beds better stocked with nutrients over the long haul.
Good luck!

 

[ChuckD]

The rockier the better for a vineyard.

I have a sandy loam soil but the percentage of cobble is quite high. When I bought the property it was a cornfield and I put the house on the little knob sticking out into the swamp because the view was best. But that’s exactly where old man glacier left all the rock!

I have spent years improving the soil in my garden with additions of organic matter, removing rocks, and planting cover crops. It’s nice to know that grapes aren’t so “needy”. I do worry that years of tillage has created a hard pan in the soil. I think the farmer I rent land to has a big chisel plow that can break it up. If not I’ll be digging each hole then using a pick axe to loosen it up.

 

[BigDaveK]

Here are a couple articles that you might like.
https://winemakermag.com/technique/dirt-dont-lie-the-impact-of-soil-on-vineyards-and-winehttps://vinepair.com/wine-blog/why-does-bad-soil-make-for-great-wine/
Grapes need to send roots deep so irrigation is discouraged if there is adequate rain (roughly an average of an inch per week). Vigor needs to be controlled, lush tall vines need to be summer pruned or hedged so the vine sends the energy and nutrients to make good quality grapes. Too rich of soil will produce great looking vines but very little fruit and lesser quality fruit.

Good articles, thanks! Some have called a hugelkultur mound a dry bed because it holds water so well. Maybe too much easy moisture would be detrimental to root development? I'm so glad I asked about this here - starting to re-think.

 

[BigDaveK]

I too would say that hugelkultur would give those vines more nutrients than they really need- grow those grapes hard and without a lot of TLC.
I think hugelkultur works like gangbusters for other more needy perennials (soft fruits/rhubarb/etc) or as a way to keep raised veggie beds better stocked with nutrients over the long haul.
Good luck!

Definitely re-thinking this. If all the backbreaking work (and it is backbreaking) won't provide a very marked improvement then why do it? For the most part I ignore my vines - mostly due to lack of time and daylight - and they turn out okay.

 

[CortneyD]

Definitely re-thinking this. If all the backbreaking work (and it is backbreaking) won't provide a very marked improvement then why do it? For the most part I ignore my vines - mostly due to lack of time and daylight - and they turn out okay.

I got thinking more about the benefits of hugelkulture is primarily (IMO) the built in network of fungi that help boost growth and micronutrient uptake... so the shortcut would be to inoculate the vine roots with mycorrhizal fungi before planting and give your back the break!

 

[VinesnBines]

It has been said before - recently - grapes don't like wet feet. I quit worrying about watering my vines. Last year my first year vines were watered in good at planting (gallon or two right after planting - it was raining while I was watering) then rain the rest of that week. For the rest of the summer we were super dry. I think we were getting a couple inches a month. I have not assessed the winter survival but all were alive last Fall. The vineyard managers I know told me not to water young vines and let them struggle.

 

[patrikthehun]

Reminds me of a Korean video where they grow table grapes and use a lot of woodchips. I'm planing to cover the rows between my vines this year because i think the microbial life is beneficial and in the great summer heat it might retain some moisture.

 

[BigDaveK]

I got thinking more about the benefits of hugelkulture is primarily (IMO) the built in network of fungi that help boost growth and micronutrient uptake... so the shortcut would be to inoculate the vine roots with mycorrhizal fungi before planting and give your back the break!

Yes, mycorrhizal fungi!! That's what I was thinking too!

No, not really.

But, yes, fungi galore. Some have compared hugelkultur to the rich environment of an old growth forest. I'm happy with my small (5x40) test bed results. I made it early last year and now it's about 1/3 the original height. Mother Nature doing Her thing.